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oh very dear -
12-16-2009, 10:30 AM
erm dude, thats you there salv,
It really is the culture to hand canned drinks out sealed and it really is the case that a polite guest refuses food 3 times. its not a real refusal, more of a social "dance", and no one is going to get upset if you dont do it. the point which is entirely lost. Is that you (generic, not 'you' personal) don't know squat. 2 people having a meal in a sushi bar and drowning thier sushi in soya, that is thier culture. and who knows where they get it from, perhaps they prefer the taste that way? or perhaps when they were first introduced to sushi it was by the very upper echelons of the Yakuza and thats how they eat it? you just don't know ultimatly to say that the "culture/custom" these two have for eating sushi is wrong. is to say that the mainstream "culture/customs" is better. and to say that one culture is better than another, (no matter how minority that culture is, be it 20, 2 or even 1 persons own individual culture) has a name. Its called Fascism. sure its not an extreme form of Fascism, im sure no one is saying "gas the sushi drowners" and that infact to simply poke fun at these people is pretty much at the opposite end of the spectrum, but it is on the same spectrum. consider this. if i had a thread called "butchering christianity" and i stated that i was talking to some muslims and they said that jesus was a prophet but not the son of god. Lets all laugh at them, gosh arn't they silly. you would probably call me a racist. this was what i was trying to put accross. that we have no place to judge other peoples customs or cultures. especially when we compare them to the mainstream. (after all sushi started with one person going against the mainstream and saying "nah screw cooking the fish-des, im just gonna put it with rice and eat it raw") 
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12-16-2009, 11:55 AM
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It's as if you're stating that you dislike the way the chef has made the sushi. Which could be taken as an insult. It's not their culture at all. If you're eating sushi, it's Japanese culture. If you're eating spaghetti, it's the Italian culture. Paella, the Spanish culture. So if there are etiquettes you should follow while eating those foods, then you should follow them. Not doing so, shows your ignorance and arrogance at presuming you are better than their culture. Quote:
It's not saying "Our culture is better than yours." at all. When it comes to culture and food, there are certain etiquettes you follow. Full stop. Not following them, shows that you see yourself above the culture, and so finding no need to follow them, because you do not respect another's culture, and so do not require to show respect to a person. Arrogance. People will see as if you think you're superior to them. That is what will piss people off the most. And if you one day meet a person, who takes this sort of slight personally, I pray that you have ways to defend yourself. Quote:
what are you on about. You've turned this into some sort of conspiracy. You sound like one of the preachers who defame media because of the "mainstream". We're only judging you at your incapability to respect someone's culture. There is no fascism, in the underlies of our arguments. Also, religion =/= food. Religion is highly debatable. It always has been. But eating etiquettes is something completely different, and hardly ties in with religion. Your religion example was a bad one. It's funny when you claim that others don't know squat, when you yourself seemed to lack some sort of understanding, since you have multiple people against you. I mean, sure. About 4 or 5 people are wrong, and you're right, no? Arrogance.
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12-16-2009, 12:46 PM
well for a start,
you cannot say that eating sushi is only japanese culture. yes it comes from japan, and is part of japanese culture. but that is not to say that "japanese culture" has a monopoly on eating sushi and all things related to sushi. worked example. amongst 80% of top law firms in NY the partners go every friday to a japanese bar eat sushi, get drunk, powow etc. is that japanese culture? or would you say that this event in itself is part of the NY law partner culture? or even a particular firms culture? or perhaps part of a larger "healthy eating" culture? you say its not about saying one culture is better than another, but you are. you are saying that eating sushi with minimal soy is better than eating sushi with lots of soy. you are justifying your argument that it would be an insult to the chef/fish and that it would be pointless. you can put any of this down to custom/etiquette but your only really playing with semantics. so im going to flip this on its head. 2 people go out for a meal. they go to a japanese resturaunt. now they between them for whatever reason want to eat the sushi they are paying for with lots of soy. but your saying that they should not eat the food they are paying for in the way that they want because it may offend the chef? you are young, so you think you can put the world into easily classified boxed this is this, that is that. this is from here so is that etc. if you showed an italian an American/pizzahut style pizza and said. "this is pizza so its Italian culture" you would be at best politely corrected "no, this is not italian culture" (or some kind of supermarket pasta ready meal, not italian cooking or culture is it, eh? no no its not) and whats all this, "i hope you can defend your self" bollards? im here saying that you should not judge people. that there is no such thing as a global all encompasing correct etiquette. and that you should express yourself freely and this means that you follow the rules of etiquette that are part of who you are. ive been to many, many many countries. i have traveled widely. I have never tried to copy my host countries culture. (sure if you enter someones home in japan you take your shoes off etc.) but on the most i am as i am. I have never offended anyone by not trying to act by thier culture. infact i have found (from real life actual experience) that this actually gets you respect. and i have made many many friends on my travels and not one person in my whole life has ever tried to start a fight with me because i did not try to copy thier culture. its the 99% of those that try to copy the cultures that get looked down on. if im in a asian resturaunt i will use chopsticks, but when it comes to eating rice. bring forth the fork/spoon. and then i and those i am with allow ourselves a little giggle at those we see trying to eat rice with chopsticks when they clearly can't. and you know what shows ignorance and arrogance. is some little jumped up little upstart thinking he can understand some places culture and the in's and outs of that countries etiquettes on a tourist visa. yea if you are in a country for more than 6months, you will probably have a basic understanding of the real culture of that destination. by now you should be using and showing the basic points you have learnt. on a final note. when i said "You dont know squat" I include myself in that. must you only see nothing good~?
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12-16-2009, 03:45 PM
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Eating in restaurants in NY, I can understand to a point. Stabbing your rice with your chopsticks is still a no-no, but somethings like using too much soy sauce could be forgiven, if the chef wasn't Japanese and if he understands that in NY, people do things differently. Quote:
You don't understand that in Japan, the food is taken to an art form. The food is so delicately made, and spiced, and created, that it's meant to be eaten in a certain way. If you go to Japan. And go to a Japanese restaurant, and did what you did because of "I eat how I want. Who cares about other's culture." then all you will do is make a fool of yourself, and maybe even anger the residence. If you want to eat how you want to eat, buy the food from a shop and eat it at home, or hotel. That way, you insult, and disrespect no one. Quote:
If it's in Japan, you can do what you want to. But you'll end up insulting someone. Thus, being rude. You can do what you want. You're a free man, with a free culture. But don't complain when people frown at your manners, or even get angry. You reap what you sow, so to speak. Quote:
I have not ever used my age as an argument, so why should you? I haven't even told you my age. It's easy for you to sit down, and blame things on age. It's harder to sit down, and think past that aspect, and read my words for what they are, instead of using age to try and warp the image you have of me in my head. Quote:
Fast food is not culture. Quote:
You don't stab rice with your chopstick. - That's respecting the culture. Eating rice with your chopsticks even if you can't. - That's copying. You don't need to copy, to respect someone's culture. I can eat rice with chopsticks easily. It's not a difficulty. An example. You're in the middle east, and you've had a long walk, and you're tired. You're accustomed to putting your feet up. So you walk into the home you've been invited into, and sit down. Now, being fully aware that showing the soles of your feet is disrespectful, and an insult to the Arabian people, do you; A) Put your feet up because you are accustomed to it, and because you're comfortable that way. or B) You keep it down, because you respect someone's culture, despite not feeling the most comfortable. A respectful, and mannered person would choose B. As for the defence point. What I am saying, is with your attitude, one day, you WILL offend someone. It's only a matter of time. I just hope that the person doesn't take it to heart. Quote:
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Since, you would have surely used "we", to target yourself aswell. I see good when I need to see good. I'm in a discussion, against someone who I disagree with. Everything you say, is used as an argument against me. Unless I agree with it.
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12-16-2009, 04:26 PM
I dont really feel any overt need to respond to anything else in your post.
we have a dif. of opinion. you have the view that one must observe and cow-toe to society, I dont. as for your example: it depends. have i just met someone and have been invited into thier home. I would not put my feet up on thier furniture, wherever i was in the world Is this person my friend, ive known them from a while, and i feel the need to put my feet up. im gonna say "hey, my feet are killing me, mind if i take off my boots and put them up for a while?" or if this person was a very good and close friend: I would take off my boots, put my feet up, point out the fact that i know this to be offensive in his/her culture and then enquire as to where my cold drink was.
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12-16-2009, 04:53 PM
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You've been invited in, and are now being prepared food. You are tired. Let us say, hypothetically, that you are a person who puts his feet up. Would you out your feet up, or not, due to their culture?
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12-16-2009, 04:55 PM
WhoisDaffy, now you are basically asking like a troll. You are changing your tune to make your story sound better and to make you appear as some elite know-it-all.
Interest in feeding the troll waning....
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12-16-2009, 05:15 PM
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I don't care what country I'm in. I don't care what food I'm eating. I eat my food the way it was intended to be eaten. So you really eat rice with a spoon? That's the lowest thing ever. Spoons (desert spoons) are for ice cream and cake, cereal. Not for rice. In Thailand, I eat rice with a fork. Traditionally, Thais eat with their hands. Nowadays, they use a spoon, because they lack culture there. But I'd eat rice with chopsticks in Thailand before I'd use a spoon; simnply, I'd do it the Chinese/Japanese way before I'd eat with a spoon or my hands. If in Japan, I'd use chopsticks right away. It's not that I like bending to Asian culture. It's just the common sense behind it; if a Thai were to come to my mothers house in Australia and eat a main course with a desert spoon, I'd be greatly ashamed. Why should I return this? A spoon is so wrong for eating main courses, I seriously feel like giving them a can opener and a pair of tongs to eat with; it's just as random. Eating with a main course with a spoon is not part of any culture; especially Western culture. If you pick up your spoon to eat a main course at a well to do Western house, I gaurentee you won't win any appreciation. Finnally, eating rice with chopsticks is not a difficult thing. If you've trouble doing it, you're no different than any Japanese 5 year old. The eternal Saint is calling, through the ages she has told. The ages have not listened; the will of faith has grown old…
For forever she will wander, for forever she withholds; the Demon King is on his way, you’d best not be learned untold…
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12-16-2009, 05:16 PM
Oddly enough I never knew it was weird to pour soysauce over rice & to soak sushi in sauce as well until I joined this forum. My friend has a tendency to do that, yet he feels compelled to tell me that he knows everything about Japanese cuisine >>. & yes I did at one point stab my chopsticks in the rice bowl (*headpalms)
At least I'd know the proper etiquette for eating at Japanese restaurants. thanks guys!   s the 10th doctor s Verbal & Taku
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12-16-2009, 05:27 PM
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unfortunatly i dont have a pickup, or live in the desert  well I say fork/spoon if there is already a spoon on my table i will just dig in with the spoon rather than get attention of waiting staff and then ask for a fork, and then wait etc. etc. but yes, generally one eats with a fork. If the rice is sticky and so i will give it a go. But in all honestly for eating rice fork is king. @salv. again it depends, on what my relationship with the "head" of that family is. not a friend and not a stranger I would probably go with option 2, possibly enquire as to the possibility of a foot rub from the wife 
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