Counters

[lucagalbu]

Hi all!
If I have to say "3 cats" or "5 professors", should I say "san hiki no neko", "go nin no sensei" or should i say "san hiki neko", "go nin sensei"?
And should I use the plural form: "san (no) nekotachi"?

[kaoken]

First I think it's 三匹(さんびき） and yes you need の because they are both nouns。IE. 猫が三匹がいます。 (There are 3 cats.) or 三匹の猫を助けた。 (I saved 3 cats.)

And there is no such thing as 'plural form'. It's implied through context. Saying something like ねこたち just means cat (as a group).

Someone correct me please.

[Nyororin]

I always just say it like "猫三匹" or "先生五人".

[enyafriend]

Counters may seems very difficult at first glance but once you get the hang of it, they are quite easy, really.

Learning counters goes beyond 3 cats and 5 professors. Maybe you should look them up in Wiki or something.

[lucagalbu]

Originally Posted by Nyororin

I always just say it like "猫三匹" or "先生五人".

So I can simply say the noun before the number followed by the counter?

[kaoken]

Originally Posted by lucagalbu

So I can simply say the noun before the number followed by the counter?

Yes, in casual speech. It's the same as in the example i gave, 猫が三匹がいます。 The particle が may be dropped.

But the definite answer is, it depends on how it's used in the sentence. A better question is, what are you trying to say using counters.

[lucagalbu]

so, generally speaking, if I have to say　"there are 3 cats" I say 猫が三匹ある　in casual speech and 　三匹の猫がある　in a formal way?

[Nyororin]

Originally Posted by lucagalbu

so, generally speaking, if I have to say　"there are 3 cats" I say 猫が三匹ある　in casual speech and 　三匹の猫がある　in a formal way?

Sort of. Cats are alive. They`re not ある, they`re いる.

I don`t really think that omitting the が necessarily makes it informal. I hear it used in that way quite often in (semi)formal speech. 「猫三匹いましたね」 「先生5人に聞きました」 etc

[filiadragongurl]

I kind of think the first "ga" you're mentioning should in most cases be "wa" or dropped... I can't really think of any good reason to use "ga." Can anyone make a case for using it over "wa"?

[Nyororin]

Originally Posted by filiadragongurl

I kind of think the first "ga" you're mentioning should in most cases be "wa" or dropped... I can't really think of any good reason to use "ga." Can anyone make a case for using it over "wa"?

It should always be ga unless there are special circumstances, like someone asks if you say 3 dogs, and you reply "No, but there were 3 cats there."


And I can`t believe I missed this the first time over.

Yes, in casual speech. It's the same as in the example i gave, 猫が三匹がいます。 The particle が may be dropped.

You don`t need the second が. 猫が三匹います。 is fine, and 三匹の猫がいます。 is also fine, but you don`t need to put an extra が in there.