Level of Japanese

[SSJup81]

I don't fit anything there. I've been studying the language (a Japanese lesson once every week, but no place to practice outside of that one lesson a week) for about two years now (I started in October 2005). I still feel that I'm "just starting out" since I'm still so bad with it.

[Nyororin]

Originally Posted by enyafriend

The table of hours (the one that was given by anrakushi) is the standard measure that is applied to anyone in gauging their JLPT level.

Normally, for those that are just taking the language for the fun of it and not intending to progress from level to level via the JLPT, then they normally talks about YEARS instead of HOURS.

I`ve never ever thought of how many hours I`ve studied Japanese - if I did, I could probably count them on one hand, but that`s beside the point. And yet, I passed JLPT 1. I never gave any thought to hours when I went for 2 or 1. (First I took 2, then did 1 because 2 was much easier than I had expected.)

I answered fluent, but technically I`ve never actually "studied" much at all. If I had to answer that way, I`d be in the less than a year.

Personally, I`d like to see a poll comparing the length of study with actual proficiency. Time tells little.

I find it fascinating that people actually count study hours. Under 100 I can see, but when you get up to 1000... How do you keep track? The same with the number of kanji people understand. Once you pass a certain number, how do you keep track?

[anrakushi]

Originally Posted by Nyororin

I find it fascinating that people actually count study hours. Under 100 I can see, but when you get up to 1000... How do you keep track? The same with the number of kanji people understand. Once you pass a certain number, how do you keep track?

hours: as i think i my unversity i studied at in japan wanted at least 300 class hours, home study is generally less structured and doesn't help give an indication really. you can know that if someone has been in a class for 100 hrs they should have learnt this and this and this. whether they remember and can use it is another thing, but they have been instructed.

now that is pretty easy to count because you just multiply hours per week of class by the number of weeks you have studied. i could probably work out how many hours of Maths i studied during six years of highschool (it goes from 7-12 here)


As for Kanji: At least for me this is easy, I use a language testing software called ProVoc. I load all the kanji i need to know for level 2 JLPT into it and I load on average 5 compounds from the level 2 JLPT vocabulary list (more compounds if the list contains them, if less i add some other useful compounds) Then the program tests me, like a flashcard program, showing me the english eg. essays, miscellaneous writings. then i write in my book the kanji 随筆 and then i type it onto the computer to check my answer. this gives me written practice and forces me to remember the character without recognising it like most flashcard testing does. I learn 5 new kanji each day with their compounds and test a random bunch of already tested compounds. i can track how many kanji i really know how to read and write by the list in my program. I may be able to recognise some other kanji but i wouldn't say i know them that well. for me i don't know a kanji until i can read and write it and know it in common compounds.

[Rogozhin]

Originally Posted by Nyororin

I`ve never ever thought of how many hours I`ve studied Japanese - if I did, I could probably count them on one hand, but that`s beside the point. And yet, I passed JLPT 1. I never gave any thought to hours when I went for 2 or 1. (First I took 2, then did 1 because 2 was much easier than I had expected.)

I answered fluent, but technically I`ve never actually "studied" much at all. If I had to answer that way, I`d be in the less than a year.

Personally, I`d like to see a poll comparing the length of study with actual proficiency. Time tells little.

I find it fascinating that people actually count study hours. Under 100 I can see, but when you get up to 1000... How do you keep track? The same with the number of kanji people understand. Once you pass a certain number, how do you keep track?

Seriously? Did you get proficient by living in Japan and adapting? I think that's how my mum became fluent..

[Nyororin]

Originally Posted by Rogozhin

Seriously? Did you get proficient by living in Japan and adapting? I think that's how my mum became fluent..

Yes. That`s pretty much the way things happened in my case. I was lucky enough to get over here when I was still young enough to pick things up quickly. I only knew 3 or 4 phrases and a handful of random words when I first got here.

I have to say that after 10 years of being here, if I weren`t fluent I`d be pretty embarrassed.

[MMM]

Originally Posted by Tenchu

You fucked the poll up. I have studied since I was 14 here and there, so many years. But never hardcore, so I can barely communicate in Japanese. Where should I vote? Silly...

Feel free to make a new poll.

[enyafriend]

Originally Posted by Nyororin

Personally, I`d like to see a poll comparing the length of study with actual proficiency. Time tells little.

I find it fascinating that people actually count study hours. Under 100 I can see, but when you get up to 1000... How do you keep track? The same with the number of kanji people understand. Once you pass a certain number, how do you keep track?

I'm sorry that I did not make myself clear enough the first time around.

It is not like everytime you take out a textbook to study, you make a record of the hours that you put into. It would be absolute crazy to make that kind of record no matter how diligent you are. HOURS here signify the amount of CLASSROOM hours that you had put in.
E.g. 4 hours of lesson per day x 5 days week = 20 hours per week, and so on.

Hours are recorded on students attending lessons in a classroom environment, and NEVER on a personal basis or self-study.
Once you have completed the required certain hours, you are deemed to be ready for the particular JLPT level. Thus, you may sit for the JLPT exams accordingly.

[MMM]

Indeed, as those who have self-studied for many years, and do not feel they have any proficiancy, this poll may not fit. I was thinking about people that have gone through formal study. Of course, Nyorin is a unique case...likely the only one here who has fluency with no formal study (besides a native speaker).

To be frank, I have never met anyone who self-studied outside of Japan and reached any real level of proficiency. I would loved to be proven wrong, but I know I wouldn't have been able to do it outside of a formal class environiment.

[imeka]

I've been studying Japanese for three years in high school, but I've known the basics forever because of my grandma, she speaks fluent, but she has an accent still yet after all these years that she hasn't been in Japan.

[SSJup81]

Originally Posted by MMM

To be frank, I have never met anyone who self-studied outside of Japan and reached any real level of proficiency. I would loved to be proven wrong, but I know I wouldn't have been able to do it outside of a formal class environiment.

I know someone who self-studied for years before taking it formally at a university. His Japanese is really good too and that was before he started a couple of years ago. I always admired how he seemed to be good with languages, although, he did admit that all the Spanish he knew is practically gone. The only thing he did complain about is that he wasn't all that confident with speaking it since he rarely had the opportunity to practice that. Last year, he was in Japan as a part of his exchange, for a year, for his major, I suppose (I know with international studies, seems you have to study abroad for at least a year or a semester). He's now a JET applicant for this year as an ALT. He's had his interview and stuff...just waiting to see if he was accepted. I hope he gets it. It'd be nice to know of someone I'd been talking to for years online to get in the program. ^_^