TRANSLATE THIS game

[KyleGoetz]

MMM, that's a very fine sentence-ending clause there. A++++ would read again.

[Nagoyankee]

Originally Posted by MMM

I came across this sentence and thought it was an interesting one because you would hardly ever structure a sentence like this in English so it took me a few glances to feel comfortable I understood it.

誤解のないように申し述べておくと心身の浄化を行なっ ても、上記の心の負の部分が消えてなくなるわけではな い。

I realize the context isn't clear, but I am mainly referring to the last 1/3 of the sentence 消えてなくなるわけではない

No too sure if you wanted us to try translating that. In case you did, mine would be:

"In order for us to be free of misunderstnading, let me state that even if one purified one's mind and body, it wouldn't (automatically) mean that all the negativities in one's mind would completely disappear."

[KyleGoetz]

The なる in MMM's sentence and Nagoyankee's translation raised a new question in my mind:

名詞になる
名詞となる

These have the same meaning (to become SOME NOUN), but the former is a more gradual change, and the latter is more instantaneous change.

How do you do this with adjectives? Is it possible?
嬉しくなる
嬉しいとなる
Is the latter grammatically correct? I can't recall ever seeing such a construction, but I don't necessarily know a reason why it wouldn't be correct. I was always taught い形容詞＋に becomes い形容詞く. I never received similar instruction for い形容詞＋と.

[MMM]

Originally Posted by Nagoyankee

No too sure if you wanted us to try translating that. In case you did, mine would be:

"In order for us to be free of misunderstnading, let me state that even if one purified one's mind and body, it wouldn't (automatically) mean that all the negativities in one's mind would completely disappear."

Sorry, I wasn't looking for a translation, but your translation reiterates how this would be a tough sentence to get away with in English. It seems like there is actually more "flexibility" in published works in terms of sentence structure in Japanese than in English. (Length, double-negatives, etc.)

[minminRW]

KyleGoetz,
On first example,
名詞になる and 名詞となる are almost same meaning and interchangeable.
名詞となる is used in limited situation such as writing or official situation.
名詞になる can use in any situation.

Second example,
嬉しくなる is OK,
嬉しいとなる (or 嬉しいになる) is NG.
It should be 嬉しいと思う or 嬉しいと感じる.
It is because of collocation, you should memorize with no reason.

[KyleGoetz]

Minmin, I understand how to use と with those other verbs (思う、感じる). I was just trying to figure out if you could use い形容詞＋となる. I've never seen it before, so I assumed not. You've confirmed my suspicion. I've known い形容詞＋動詞 turns the final い into く, which I think technically speaking turns it from い形容詞 into a 副詞. Actually, I think in the structure な形容詞に動詞, な形容詞に is an adverb, technically (it does modify a verb). But I could be mistaken.

And I'm confused by your statement that the first two are interchangeable. I distinctly remember a professor at my Japanese university explaining that になる and となる are differentiated in that the former is a more gradual change, while the latter is more rapid (nigh instantaneous). Was I taught wrong? I've been using it that way for many years now...

Edit I did a little searching and found this blurb:

4は「に」と共通する点があるが、「と」はその結果を� �すのに重点がある。7は、現在も「ありとあらゆる」な� ��の慣用句的表現の中にわずかに残っている。

This disappoints me. I was taught incorrectly and I've been using it wrong. I had believed what I was taught because most of my Japanese reading now is newspaper articles, and I've been seeing stuff like 大統領となる, where you would pretty much instantaneously become President. It's not a gradual thing, as opposed to 大人になる, which is gradual.

Edit 2: For some reason a few characters are becoming boxes when I hit the "save" button in the forum. I can see them just fine in the editing box, but they become boxes after submitting the comment. Weird.

[minminRW]

Kilegoetz, please see below, this is conjugation of い形容詞 and な形容詞.

い形容詞(officially called 形容詞)
未然形－かろ (used when it is not decided.)
連用形－かっ・く・う (declinable word follows）
終止形－い (ending)
連体形－い (indeclinable word follows)
仮定形－けれ (subjunctive mood)
命令形－かれ (imperative form)

だ形容詞（you mention な形容詞, 形容動詞 is offcial）
未然形－だろ （でしょ）
連用形－だっ・で・に （でし）
終止形－だ （です）
連体形－な （です）
仮定形－なら
命令形－

Therefore, 嬉しくなる：い形容詞連用形＋動詞終止形 and 嬉しく is not adverb.
Likewise, な形容詞に is not adverb.

[minminRW]

Originally Posted by KyleGoetz

And I'm confused by your statement that the first two are interchangeable. I distinctly remember a professor at my Japanese university explaining that になる and となる are differentiated in that the former is a more gradual change, while the latter is more rapid (nigh instantaneous). Was I taught wrong? I've been using it that way for many years now...

Unfortunately, you　were taught wrong. As I said になる and　となる is interchangeable in almost all case.
To say in addition, 大統領となる/大人となる sounds strange when you use as spoken language.

[Sashimister]

Wondering if anyone has seen a good English (or French) translation of this new term in Japanese.

加齢臭

Merci d'avance!

[jesselt]

Rikaichan says "Distinctive body odor of the middle-aged and elderly"

Old people smell?