How to use 「くれる」

[berrypie]

It's me again... I am learning Japanese on my own now (with the help of a dictionary and friend's course notes), and the way I am learning is, read, read, read. Try to figure out the grammar structure, and make sentences myself. If I ask stupid questions, please be kind to me and don't laugh

Okay, here is my next little topic: くれる
誘ってくれてありがとう
I know what that means (the くれる in here means being given ?)

肩を揉んでくれるのですか？
In here, do I help the speaker massage his shoulder?

And here one more example
たまには俺を頼ってくれてもいい
My friend said the くれる is somewhat redundant in here.

[CaptainThunder]

Originally Posted by berrypie

肩を揉んでくれるのですか？
In here, do I help the speaker massage his shoulder?

And here one more example
たまには俺を頼ってくれてもいい
My friend said the くれる is somewhat redundant in here.

As for the first one, you're correct, くれる is always to the speaker, あげる is always from the speaker.

Sorry I can't comment on the second one, I'm not sure why it would be redundant in that case though.

[Harold]

Originally Posted by berrypie

たまには俺を頼ってくれてもいい
My friend said the くれる is somewhat redundant in here.

This doesn't make sense because it says, "once in a while you can rely on me for me."

[berrypie]

Hm... I saw the last example from a Japanese website... so how come a Japanese person can say something like that?

Anyways, if 肩を揉んでくれるのですか refers to I give him a massage on the shoulder, what should I say if I want him massage on me?

And one more question, what does the usage of の in here with a ですか？'coz I know の can also be used in a question (similar to か)

[Harold]

Originally Posted by berrypie

Hm... I saw the last example from a Japanese website... so how come a Japanese person can say something like that?

Anyways, if 肩を揉んでくれるのですか refers to I give him a massage on the shoulder, what should I say if I want him massage on me?

And one more question, what does the usage of の in here with a ですか？'coz I know の can also be used in a question (similar to か)

It could just be me. I'm not exactly fluent, but that's how I translated it.

Both cases are the same, one person asking another, so whatever he says, you can say.

の sort of softens the request like, "is it the fact that you will rub my shoulder for me?" which sounds weird in English, but that's the best way I can translate it...

[Nagoyankee]

Originally Posted by berrypie

It's me again... I am learning Japanese on my own now (with the help of a dictionary and friend's course notes), and the way I am learning is, read, read, read. Try to figure out the grammar structure, and make sentences myself. If I ask stupid questions, please be kind to me and don't laugh

Okay, here is my next little topic: くれる
誘ってくれてありがとう
I know what that means (the くれる in here means being given ?)

肩を揉んでくれるのですか？
In here, do I help the speaker massage his shoulder?

And here one more example
たまには俺を頼ってくれてもいい
My friend said the くれる is somewhat redundant in here.

All those sentences are correct and natural.

誘ってくれてありがとう = "Thanks for inviting me."

肩を揉んでくれるのですか？ = "(Oh, so) you're kind enough to massage my shoulder." This may be in the question form grammatically, but in meaning it says you're glad that the other person has offered to massage you.

たまには俺を頼ってくれてもいい = "You can rely on me once in a while." This means that the speaker （俺） is fond of the listener and he has been wanting to offer help to the listener. But the listener hasn't really asked the speaker for help so far. It's really saying "You should come to me more often. And don't hesitate to ask me whenever in trouble."

[Nagoyankee]

Now I realize that I didn't really answer your question in my last post.

くれる is a fairly difficult verb for the non-native speaker to use correctly. But I can say with confidence as a native speaker that once you get a knack of it and start using it, your Japanese will sound much more natural.

First, let me mention the exceptional usage of くれる. Unlike most other verbs, くれる is not often used by all itself but is added to another verb.

All by itself, it means "to give".

これはスミスさんがくれたペンです。 = This is the pen that Mr. Smith gave to me.

お父さん、ともこちゃんがおかしをくれたよ。 = Daddy, Tomoko-chan gave me some candies!

I'm sure that this usage is easy for anyone to learn. The problem would be the other usage.

Added to the -te form of another verb, くれる means "(to do something) for someone". It has the connotation of "going through the trouble of doing something for me".

お母さん、アイスクリーム（を）買ってくれる？ = Mom, could you buy an icecream for me?

このハンバーガー（を）食べてくれる？おなかすいてな いの。 = Can you eat this burger for me? I'm not hungry.

１０時ころに来てくれますか？ = Could you come here around 10?

NOTICE: I put the particle を in paretheses beacsue it's very often omitted in casual conversation. Also, I used the question mark becasue these are casual speech. In formally written Japanese, there is no such thing as a question mark.

[berrypie]

So how would you say "let me massage (your shoulder) for you" ?? use あげる？

sounds like くれる is for someone, あげる refers to "to you"......

[Nagoyankee]

Originally Posted by berrypie

So how would you say "let me massage (your shoulder) for you" ?? use あげる？

sounds like くれる is for someone, あげる refers to "to you"......

It's a good question. くれる and あげる should be learned in a pair.

Let me massage (your shoulder) for you. = 肩をマッサージしてあげます。or　肩をマッサージして� ��げましょう。

Just like くれる, あげる is also added to the -te form of a verb.

The bottom line is this:

くれる is used from the viewpoint of the receiver of an action.

あげる is used from the viewpoint of the action-taker.

Jack: お父さん、ともこちゃんがおかしくれたよ。　Daddy, Tomoko-chan gave me some candies.

At the same time, at Tomoko's home she may be telling her Mom what she just did.

Tomoko: ママ、ジャックにおかしあげたよ。 Mom, I just gave Jack some candies.

[berrypie]

すごいね Nagoyankee さん、you explain everything to me clearly! もしかして、Nagoyankee さんは国語教師ですか？

If you have time, please refer to the other thread~ Let's start chatting on Japanese! And if I have any mistakes, please correct me~