Numbers...

[Sublymonal]

I've recently purchased the Rosetta Stone program for learning Japanese. I did this after much deliberation [after all, it did cost 400 US$ and I'm operating on a student's income], and now find myself enjoying the experience.

However, I do have some issues. I'm still in the beginning stages, and I've come across the section that teaches the numbers 1-6. My question is: what is the significance of the different endings to the numbers? Or, in other words, when do I use the different endings?

There seemed to be a particularly large number of different endings for "san" [3], including: San, Sanko, Sandai, Sanmai, Sansatsu, Sanbiki, and Sanbon.

I know that with the Rosetta Stone program you're supposed to learn by example, but I just can't get past this. Thanks in advance for any help you may offer!

[Nagoyankee]

The significance is greater than what anyone will tell you, trust me.

In English and many other languages, you count just about anything the same way.

5 apples, 5 pensils, 5 cars, etc...

In Japanese, this doen't work. You need to use the counter to count anything, and the counters change depending on what you're counting.

Before I go on, let me ask if you can read hiragana. I hate to explain things using romaji.

[kirakira]

I wouldn't be too worried. Just use generics (sino-japanese + ko or japanese-numbering) for anything you are not sure off and remember the common ones like counter for books and tv sets.

[Sublymonal]

Originally Posted by Nagoyankee

The significance is greater than what anyone will tell you, trust me.

In English and many other languages, you count just about anything the same way.

5 apples, 5 pensils, 5 cars, etc...

In Japanese, this doen't work. You need to use the counter to count anything, and the counters change depending on what you're counting.

Before I go on, let me ask if you can read hiragana. I hate to explain things using romaji.

A little bit... As I said, I'm just starting out. If you do write in hiragana, I should be able to translate though.

[Nagoyankee]

Originally Posted by Sublymonal

A little bit... As I said, I'm just starting out. If you do write in hiragana, I should be able to translate though.

Good. But do rememebr that heavy use of romaji at the beginning stage will get you hooked on it and this will eventually slow down your Japanese learning process. Japanese people think everything in terms of syllables.

I'll explain how to use the counters that you listed in your first post.

3（さん）: Number 3. Unlike in English, you cannot place a noun directly after it. Same goes with any number, not just 3.

Basic Format: (number) + (counter) + の + (noun)

こ : こ is the counter than can be used for many small countable objects if they aren't too long or thin in physical shape.

3このりんご= 3 apples.　3このけしごむ= 3 rubbers.　3このキャンディー=3 candies.

だい: だい is for counting machines, appliances, cars, etc.

3だいのくるま= 3 cars.　2だいのれいぞうこ= 2 refrigerators.　8だいのミシン= 8 sawing machines.

まい　： counter for thin objects.

4まいのかみ= 4 sheets of paper.　8まいのタオル= 8 towels.　2まいのピザ= 2 whole pizzas.

さつ ： counter for books, magazines, notebooks, etc.

1さつのほん= a book.　6さつのノート= 6 notebooks.　3さつのざっし= 3 magazines.

ひき：　counter for small animals. Note the pronounciation changes according to the number preceding it.

1ぴき（いっぴき）のねこ= a cat. "Piki" with numbers 1, 6, 8, 10, 20, 30, etc.

4ひきのいぬ= 4 dogs. "Hiki" with 2, 4, 5, 7 and 9

3びきのかえる= 3 frogs. "Biki" with 3.

ほん：　counter for long, stick-type objects. Like ひき, the pronunciation changes according to the number preceding it.

１ぽん（いっぽん）のバナナ= a banana. "Pon" with numbers 1, 6, 8, 10, 20, 30, etc.

4ほんのポッキー= 4 Pocky sticks. "Hon" with 2, 4, 5, 7 and 9

3ぼんのえんぴつ= 3 pencils. "Bon" with 3.
_______________________

There are countless other counters in Japanese. But you need to learn basic sentence structures and build a good vocabulary before worring about them.

[Sublymonal]

Originally Posted by Nagoyankee

Good. But do rememebr that heavy use of romaji at the beginning stage will get you hooked on it and this will eventually slow down your Japanese learning process. Japanese people think everything in terms of syllables.

I'll explain how to use the counters that you listed in your first post.

3（さん）: Number 3. Unlike in English, you cannot place a noun directly after it. Same goes with any number, not just 3.

Basic Format: (number) + (counter) + の + (noun)

こ : こ is the counter than can be used for many small countable objects if they aren't too long or thin in physical shape.

3このりんご= 3 apples.　3このけしごむ= 3 rubbers.　3このキャンディー=3 candies.

だい: だい is for counting machines, appliances, cars, etc.

3だいのくるま= 3 cars.　2だいのれいぞうこ= 2 refrigerators.　8だいのミシン= 8 sawing machines.

まい　： counter for thin objects.

4まいのかみ= 4 sheets of paper.　8まいのタオル= 8 towels.　2まいのピザ= 2 whole pizzas.

さつ ： counter for books, magazines, notebooks, etc.

1さつのほん= a book.　6さつのノート= 6 notebooks.　3さつのざっし= 3 magazines.

ひき：　counter for small animals. Note the pronounciation changes according to the number preceding it.

1ぴき（いっぴき）のねこ= a cat. "Piki" with numbers 1, 6, 8, 10, 20, 30, etc.

4ひきのいぬ= 4 dogs. "Hiki" with 2, 4, 5, 7 and 9

3びきのかえる= 3 frogs. "Biki" with 3.

ほん：　counter for long, stick-type objects. Like ひき, the pronunciation changes according to the number preceding it.

１ぽん（いっぽん）のバナナ= a banana. "Pon" with numbers 1, 6, 8, 10, 20, 30, etc.

4ほんのポッキー= 4 Pocky sticks. "Hon" with 2, 4, 5, 7 and 9

3ぼんのえんぴつ= 3 pencils. "Bon" with 3.
_______________________

There are countless other counters in Japanese. But you need to learn basic sentence structures and build a good vocabulary before worring about them.

Thank you very much sir! And yes, I plan on memorizing all of Hiragana and Katakana after the end of my current lesson. [Not long to go.] It really is surprising how difficult it is to find a good Hiragana/Katakana chart! Took me nearly two hours to find a good one!

[chryuop]

Sublymomanl, if it helps think that even in English you use counter...just not 100% of the times.
Think about liquids like water, wine and so on. You can say you bought some water, but if you need to specify the quantity you need to use a counter such as: 2 bottles, 2 glasses, 1 liter...and so on. The difference is that in Japanese the counter is used 100% of the times you use a number.
Getting a complete list of counters for us students is, in my opinion, close to impossible since there are so many.

But about counters I have a question too for the native speakers or who knows Japanese.
つ can be considered a counter and works with the 訓読み, but for small numbers. What happens for bigger numbers? I mean, it is ok to say 一つの質問,
but what about 20, 32 or 40? I guess saying 試験には三十二つの質問があります would be considered a mistake. I was taught for small things that don't have a real counter I can use 個, but not sure if it works for abstract nouns too.

[SHAD0W]

Originally Posted by Nagoyankee

2まいのピザ= 2 whole pizzas.

Does this differ for a slice of pizza or is that still まい?

ピザの三角を残して下さい？　　

[Nagoyankee]

Originally Posted by SHAD0W

Does this differ for a slice of pizza or is that still まい?

ピザの三角を残して下さい？　　

Careful speakers do not count slices (pieces) of pizza with まい.
You would use the counter 切れ（きれ）.

[synce]

If you still haven't learned your kana I recommend Heisig's book. I learned both hiragana and katakana in less than 3 hours (1 hour per day). You can download it online or buy it from a site like Amazon, much like Rosetta Stone