kanji

[chryuop]

Originally Posted by alanX

LOL

I guess it's just me, but I find improperly written Kanji just as legible as perfect ones.

And I'm dyslexic, so... I don't know. From the Kanji that I do know (which is only about a 3rd graders) I can read despite how they're written. As long as they're within reason, you know what I mean.

No need to try and bash someone based on your individual preferences. 99% of the time it's an awkward mess.




Nice edit there. I won't even acknowledge most of that ranting. lol
But yes, I said "one of the" easiest way of staying in Japan short-term (less that one year) would be staying in a guest house, which cost about $500 a month. Please inform me of a longer and cheaper stay, I beg of you. I said on a spousal visa, basically the best job you will get is a low-paying one. And I used "burger-flipping" as an example, if you will. I'll gladly link you the post if you'd like?

Don't get so worked up, kid. LOL

Also, since I'm on a roll of degrading myself by wasting 5 minutes of my life on you, I will elaborate on what I mean with the Kanji thing, as that post was a little confusing, and not all what I mean.

I guess I can see where some confusion would occur, when writing more complex Kanji improperly, such as 話, 読, 書, 機, 季. I can see there might be some confusion, such as mistaking them for other Kanji, etc. But with no-brainer 1st grade Kanji like　日, 円, 金 for God's Sake, stroke order really doesn't matter. (To me)

That's all I mean, bro.

Can I ask you how many Japanese hand written document have you seen? In the dojo I go to there are tons of hand written posters and trust me, the only 2 kanji I managed to read were 太刀.
Excpet that I guess you feel very confident in you Japanese to try to prove wrong native speakers and non native speaker whose job is Japanese translator.

[alanX]

Originally Posted by chryuop

Can I ask you how many Japanese hand written document have you seen? In the dojo I go to there are tons of hand written posters and trust me, the only 2 kanji I managed to read were 太刀.
Excpet that I guess you feel very confident in you Japanese to try to prove wrong native speakers and non native speaker whose job is Japanese translator.

I'm not trying to prove anyone wrong? Please tell me where I tried to prove someone wrong?

I can barely understand your English, for that matter.

All I'm trying to say is this: There are some Kanji that stroke order is important, but (for me) the majority, I can read despite which order it's written. Do me a favor. Draw a square, then draw a line through it. Then, on a separate piece of paper, draw a line, then draw a square around it. Do they both turn out to be 日? To me, the answer is yes. Does that mean I'm trying to prove anyone wrong? NO.

My Japanese is terrible. I can really only communicate with 10 year old Japanese kids. But I can still read 1st-3rd grade Kanji no matter the stroke order. Does that mean everyone is the exact same as me? No. Maybe you're listening to your full-blooded American "dojo" instructor too much.

Get of my back, people.

And that's all I've got to say about that.

[MMM]

Now draw 日 the way the majority of Japanese people do. Trust me, it's not "a square with a line through it".

Take something like this:

You can see the strokes, where they start and where they finish. If it was drawn out of order, it would look silly.

[darksyndrem]

Originally Posted by alanX

I'm not trying to prove anyone wrong? Please tell me where I tried to prove someone wrong?

I can barely understand your English, for that matter.

All I'm trying to say is this: There are some Kanji that stroke order is important, but (for me) the majority, I can read despite which order it's written. Do me a favor. Draw a square, then draw a line through it. Then, on a separate piece of paper, draw a line, then draw a square around it. Do they both turn out to be 日? To me, the answer is yes. Does that mean I'm trying to prove anyone wrong? NO.

My Japanese is terrible. I can really only communicate with 10 year old Japanese kids. But I can still read 1st-3rd grade Kanji no matter the stroke order. Does that mean everyone is the exact same as me? No. Maybe you're listening to your full-blooded American "dojo" instructor too much.

Get of my back, people.

And that's all I've got to say about that.

Seriously? You're not very smart if you can't understand Chryuop's English

[alanX]

Originally Posted by MMM

Now draw 日 the way the majority of Japanese people do. Trust me, it's not "a square with a line through it".

Take something like this:

You can see the strokes, where they start and where they finish. If it was drawn out of order, it would look silly.

Yes. It WOULD look silly, but it's still legible(to me)

That's all I'm trying to say. Not trying to bash anyone, or cause fight or BS whatever. We're all different, we all learn different, and obviously we all read differently.

Originally Posted by darksyndrem

Seriously? You're not very smart if you can't understand Chryuop's English

Seriously? That's it? That post was a little counter-productive on your part. LOL "You're not very smart"

Thanks for making my day. HAHAHAHAHAH you deserve this:

[darksyndrem]

Well, I'm not going down that road. It's gotten me banned before, don't want that to happen here

[Sangetsu]

If you get into the habit of writing in kanji, you'll come to know how important stroke order is. Using the proper stroke order will increase your efficiency in writing, as well as making the characters more legible.

I too used to wonder what the big deal was, but I learned soon enough how important the stroke order is. Saying that stroke order is not important is like crying out "I don't know what I'm talking about!!", and is a sure sign that you have not been studying for very long, or that if you have, you haven't learned much yet.

The best source I know for learning kanji is the "Basic Kanji Book". It is the most highly rated aid for studying kanji, and nothing else I have tried works as well. The first book contains the 250 kanji that are most commonly used, the second book contains another 250. These books include include reading and writing exercises, designed to help you learn and retain the characters.

[chryuop]

Originally Posted by alanX

I'm not trying to prove anyone wrong? Please tell me where I tried to prove someone wrong?

I can barely understand your English, for that matter.

All I'm trying to say is this: There are some Kanji that stroke order is important, but (for me) the majority, I can read despite which order it's written. Do me a favor. Draw a square, then draw a line through it. Then, on a separate piece of paper, draw a line, then draw a square around it. Do they both turn out to be 日? To me, the answer is yes. Does that mean I'm trying to prove anyone wrong? NO.

My Japanese is terrible. I can really only communicate with 10 year old Japanese kids. But I can still read 1st-3rd grade Kanji no matter the stroke order. Does that mean everyone is the exact same as me? No. Maybe you're listening to your full-blooded American "dojo" instructor too much.

Get of my back, people.

And that's all I've got to say about that.

I like people like you. First say stupid things, then instead of admitting they are wrong they start attacking others.
1_ I am sorry you don't understand my English, but unless you can speak other 2 languages at the same level I speak English as I do (not my native language), just shut up.
2_I really would love to see you speaking to a 10 year old Japanese kid. I don't know where you live, but where I come from 10 year old kids have quite a large vocabulary...and I am sure in Japan too. An adult would try to help you by using easier words and speaking slowly, a kid would just speak as he does normally, which I seriously doubt you would understand.
3_If you didn't want to prove wrong someone who knows more than you the subject, then don't keep answering back trying to keep your position. Admit you are wrong and go on.
4_Dear Ed, I don't understand why attacking my instructor since I have never mentioned it, unless it was just venting your stress due to the fact you didn't know what else to say. I was merely telling you that I have seen hand written kanji and they do look pretty different from the ones you see on computer. I don't understand how you can state that you can read the easy kanji written by whoever when you have never seen hand written kanji before.
5_If you highlighted "dojo" to show it was an error, well it was not. I write many Japanese words that are commonly used in English in the western style. Except the fact that I hate romaji, I would love to see everyone start writing Toukyou in this forum. If I wanted to write dojo the correct way I would have written どうじょう or 道場 since (maybe wrong) but I do not consider romaji an alternative way to writing Japanese words.

[jesselt]

Originally Posted by alanX

My Japanese is terrible. I can really only communicate with 10 year old Japanese kids.

Don't flatter yourself =/

Also, people are arguing with you because stroke order IS important. If you can't see why then you don't understand Japanese well enough yet. It's like arguing with someone who says you don't need to put a っ in sentences because it doesn't really change the pronunciation. It's just wrong >_>

[MMM]

Originally Posted by Sangetsu

The best source I know for learning kanji is the "Basic Kanji Book".

I second this. It's a great book for learning kanji.