Could someone please check this for me?

[SHAD0W]

@KyleGoetz:
1 - Who needs a full time class? My class is once a week for 2 hours, and it’s a year 1 class so I’m way beyond the lesson content, I just go for the speaking practice and to hang out with my friends who are just begginers.
2 - can you prove it isn't possible? - how much do you study each day? who says someone cant study more than you and become fluent in 1 - 2 years? (AJATT anyone?)
3 - How do you define fluent?
4 - If you were at ChisaChi's current level after year then you dont deserve to be bragging about having a natural gift with languages, especially when your example of “I have eaten > 食べます” was WRONG. Your link doesn’t back you up much, either.
5 - I found German and French much more difficult than Japanese
6 - It's only a different writing system, just becasue it takes longer to master it doesn't make it any more difficult. Get over it.
7 - What about verb conjugation is so hard?
8 - What difference does it make that "US government organizations who have studied language acquisition" say it's more difficult?
9 - You say Chinese is harder because of the writing system, again, refer back to point 6.

In short everything you have posted is down to personal definition and preference.

@Jesselt:
After 3 years of constant study you would have to be pretty bad to only be able to hold up conversations in which you ask plenty of "what does XXX mean?" questions.
And how can you say someone has no life if they choose to spend their time mastering a language? (Small minded much?)

If you say that by fluent you "mean that you should be able to understand a multitude of words that aren't used in every day speech" then 3 years is plenty of time,
here i'll give you some random words now 宇宙人、政治、機械翻訳、睡眠誘発ガス、俳句、オブジ ェクト指向　ah the wonders of learning some random words in only a couple of days, with the excpeption of オブジェクト指向 i can assure you they are not daily words for me.
Dialects and kanji are hard?!?! news to me, as for dialects they are still set in general rules and usages, whats so hard about learning a dialect if you've learned an entire langauge already?
As for kanji, well, refer to point 6 above.

"鼻が高い = tall nose?" ← Anyone who knows japanese would also know that 高い can be translated into English as "high", and that 鼻が高い is just an idiom for "Proud"
(Makes sense when in English you can "hold your head high" doesn't it? oh but wait, thats too complicated for english speakers to understand, sorry)
That basically like me throwing out the phrase 朝飯前 and saying "OMG!! morning meal before?!?! what does that mean?!?!?" when it's the equivalent of the English phrase "Piece of cake"
It really isn't difficult stuff, and you could come up with any example like that for any language so i really don't see your point.

Again, your multitude of languages that are "easier to learn" are only based off of personal opinion and definition.

[jesselt]

Shadow, there's no reason to get defensive. There's also no need to act as if Japanese is just so simple you master it in your sleep. I'm glad you know some random words; good for you! There's still a big difference between that and knowing a lot of random words. After three years you will still have to ask what certain things are, I'm sorry to say. You will not know every word you come across, and unless you plan on sticking to simple conversations about the weather and how school is going, you are going to need help understanding certain advanced topics.

And please don't tell me you really didn't understand what I was saying about 鼻が高い... If you were seeing this for the first time, you might translate it as something like "Tall (or yes, HIGH) nose" which sounds a little weird. As you pointed out, languages are full of these things, and to be fluent in that language you need to understand them all.

Let me know how fluent you are after three years though.

[Lucas89]

Originally Posted by jesselt

After three years you will still have to ask what certain things are, I'm sorry to say. You will not know every word you come across, and unless you plan on sticking to simple conversations about the weather and how school is going, you are going to need help understanding certain advanced topics.

With certain advanced topics in English I have to ask what words mean, and I've been living in England for 20 years now.

Although this is all just a standard "you cant be fluent in X time" - "Yes you can" argument, I have to say that if I read both of your posts together it gives me the impression that by your current logic and explanations, I would not be fluent in English if I had to ask what every other word meant in an advanced English conversation.

Of course this is without knowing what you mean by "advanced"

Originally Posted by jesselt

And please don't tell me you really didn't understand what I was saying about 鼻が高い... If you were seeing this for the first time, you might translate it as something like "Tall (or yes, HIGH) nose" which sounds a little weird. As you pointed out, languages are full of these things, and to be fluent in that language you need to understand them all.

I feel as though I have to point out here, that when reading your post it did seem like you were just stating general fact, instead of giving an example of seeing it for the first time.

[ChisaChi]

Um.. okay.

I realise that I'm not as dedicated as some - I go to classes a couple of hours a week, and often don't have time to study much beyond that. Currently I run a business (which often means more than full time work), take belly dancing classes, teach web design, do a lot of crafts, have a busy social and professional networking life and study Japanese. Yes, I could study more - I am trying to. But at this point in my life when I finish my work for the day I want to do something relaxing, and Japanese is not relaxing for me.

I will stand by my statement that Japanese is a difficult language to learn compared to some. For example, I studied Indonesian in highschool - easiest freaking language ever! Just being able to use the same writing system that you're used to makes things so much easier. So I do have an issue with this statement:

Originally Posted by SHAD0W

6 - It's only a different writing system, just becasue it takes longer to master it doesn't make it any more difficult. Get over it.

It definitely makes things more difficult to learn, as the scope of what you have to learn to be functional is so much wider. Add to that the number of kanji and complexity of characters is far greater than the alphabet that we use - I absolutely think that it's harder to learn. When I speak to Japanese people other than my teacher about my struggles with kanji, they often admit that they have trouble with them too - even that reading a newspaper they often see kanji that they don't know the exact meaning of. If native speakers/writers of the language have trouble with it themselves.... I'd say it's a difficult language.

Definitely think that Chinese is harder though! Tones, I do not get them O_O

[InuAisu]

Originally Posted by SHAD0W

No offence, Teresa.. but after 3 years.. you should be almost fluent by now..?

That is rediculously unneccessarily rude. This thread was not made inquiring about your opinion. She undoubtedly has other things that are more pertinent than your silly opinions. You should highly consider keeping useless thought drainage to yourself. As if your uninvolved lack of sensitivity wasn't enough, your arrogance toward language learning is shocking. Dedication towards language learning can be as spaced out as each individual person wants in accordance to their goals. Her current level of japanese and apparent goal of wanting to go to Japan are in perfect synch, if not her abilities being past to her goal. Besides, when she does go to Japan, her Japanese will get a lot better.

But let me say, how dare a person who claims -through being a member of this site- they are a fan of Japan speak so someone with such disrespect. You'd think someone who is a fan of Japan would know how to bite their tongue (or superglue their fingers together, in this case.)

[InuAisu]

Also, you'd think someone who studies Japanese as 'much' as you do would have enough knowledge of Japan to know that they consider it taboo to dye one's hair. Good Job.

[SHAD0W]

Originally Posted by InuAisu

That is rediculously unneccessarily rude. This thread was not made inquiring about your opinion.

If thats so, howcome OP didn't say something? my post was not with evil intent, infact, some might say it was motivational. i only fought back after I was jumped on by kyle and jesselt brown nosed him.

Edit: I'm not Japanese nor am I living in Japan, so i can do whatever the hell I like with my hair - Also, my friend Ayumi has blonde streaks in her hair, so it can't be so bad.

[ChisaChi]

Originally Posted by SHAD0W

If thats so, howcome OP didn't say something? my post was not with evil intent, infact, some might say it was motivational. i only fought back after I was jumped on by kyle and jesselt brown nosed him.

While I didn't take offense to your initial question, I do consider your later statements regarding how supposedly easy it is to study Japanese and passing judgment on my own lack of skill rude. Not everyone is in the same situation as you.

[InuAisu]

You should read your own signature. If YOU'RE going to japan, I feel very bad for whatever country you'll be representing while you're there and I pray to GOD that you're not from America. Your profile says you are 'I'm a grumpy old man whos set into his ways. Dont like it? Tough ' I hope your ways are towards being respectful to your superiors/elders (which you've already showed you're anything BUT) and you're okay with conforming (which, if that's your attitude towards dying your hair, you are also anything but). Please, whatever you say next, or ever, please don't let it be that you are from America. The world's vision of America is already wrongly ruined, and I already have enough to make up for when I go to Japan. I don't need your grotesque attitude hitting the fan.

[SHAD0W]

Originally Posted by ChisaChi

While I didn't take offense to your initial question, I do consider your later statements regarding how supposedly easy it is to study Japanese and passing judgment on my own lack of skill rude. Not everyone is in the same situation as you.

In that case, do excuse me. T'was not my intention.

Originally Posted by InuAisu

You should read your own signatu...

Too long, didn't read