Pop Quiz

[Nagoyankee]

Here are the answers. There will be no Part 3, I must say...
__________

[snbzk]

Why is it that both の and が can be used in that sentence but not the following sentence?

[KyleGoetz]

snbzk, the way you should think of it is like this:

In an adjective clause (the food that my dad makes), take out the partial sentence (I don't know the correct term) from the clause (that my dad makes). Any が there can become a の. For example:

父が飲んだビール〜
父の飲んだビール〜

母が作った靴下〜
母の作った靴下〜 (anyone appreciate my unintentional reinforcement of gender roles? )

I don't know what "following sentence" you're referring to (I'm guessing you forgot to paste a sentence in your post), but that's my explanation of the の／が phenomenon.

Nagoyankee: Would you say that the use of が used to be favored, but as times change, preference for の has grown, and that's why the latter sounds softer than the former?

[Nagoyankee]

Originally Posted by snbzk

Why is it that both の and が can be used in that sentence but not the following sentence?

Because, as the subject marker, の can only be used in subordinate clauses, not in main clauses.

[snbzk]

Originally Posted by KyleGoetz

In an adjective clause (the food that my dad makes), take out the partial sentence (I don't know the correct term) from the clause (that my dad makes). Any が there can become a の.
...
I don't know what "following sentence" you're referring to

I was talking about the next sentence in the quiz: "これは昨日私が買ったシャツです。" 昨日私が買った is an adjective clause, is it not? And isn't an adjective clause a subordinate clause?

[Nagoyankee]

Originally Posted by snbzk

Why is it that both の and が can be used in that sentence but not the following sentence?

Alright, snbzk, I've finally found the answer after a weekend of research. The explanation in my last post wasn't too accurate, I apologize.

の and が are only interchangeable when they are used in the clause that constitutes the subject of the sentence.

In the sentence 「父（ が/の　）作るラーメンはとてもおいしいです。」, ラーメン is the subject. Therefore, you have a choice of の or が.

But in the sentence 「これは昨日私（　が　）買ったシャツです。」, the subject is これ. Therefore, the only possible particle after 私 will be が.

[minminRW]

Nagoyankee,

「これは昨日私（　が　）買ったシャツです。」
I think this sentence can also be use の.

Do you mean このシャツは私が買いました。？

[Nagoyankee]

Originally Posted by minminRW

Nagoyankee,

「これは昨日私（　が　）買ったシャツです。」
I think this sentence can also be use の.

Do you mean このシャツは私が買いました。？

No, I mean the particle after the 私.

In my ear, の would sound okay only if the word 昨日 wasn't there. But even without the 昨日, が still sounds "better" or "more natural". This may merely be a personal preference, though.

[snbzk]

Thanks for your efforts, Nagoyankee. While the issue doesn't seem to have been totally resolved, I'll take your advice anyway and only use の in the subject.

Just for the sake of argument, I found the relevant point in the book where I originally heard about the phenomenon:

の
5. Used to replace が to indicate the subject of a clause modifying a noun.
これは坂本さんの描いた油絵です。
昨日あなたの話していたレストランはどこですか。

[minminRW]

Originally Posted by Nagoyankee

No, I mean the particle after the 私.

In my ear, の would sound okay only if the word 昨日 wasn't there. But even without the 昨日, が still sounds "better" or "more natural". This may merely be a personal preference, though.

All right, I agree.
From the point of grammar, 私の買ったシャツ is also OK.
(subject)の（verb/adjective）(noun) and (subject)が（verb/adjective）(noun)are interchangeable.

Let me explain my feeling but I am not sure it is true.
私が買ったシャツ is (私が買った)＋（シャツ）
私の買ったシャツ is (私のシャツ)＋(買ったシャツ)
Therefore,
（このシャツは）私が買った。 is OK.
（このシャツは）私の買った。 is NG.