grammar question

[coldsymphony13]

Hi. I've recently started learning Japanese and I just had a few questions to clarify a couple of things:

kono, sono, and ano vs sore, kore, and are.

the ono's are specific so for example you would say

"Kono wa pen desu." but you wouldn't ever say "Kore wa pen desu." due to pen being speficially in the sentence already. Is this correct? Because on one of the learning videos before we got into "kono, sono, and ano" they do use kore and a noun in the sentence at the same time... So I am just slightly confused on the difference.


My second question is just about spelling and writing. For example "kasa" would be the hirogana symbols for ka and sa. Is it as simple as that? Thanks alot.

[chryuop]

kono ha pen desu is wrong. In the demostrative when you have "no" (kono, ano, sono) you will have a name following it. When you have the dimostrative followed by "re" (sore, kore, are) they become pronouns and that means they can be used alone. When the same series and with "ko" (koko, soko, asoko) they are still pronouns but used to identify locations. so going back to you example:

kore ha pen desu (this is a pen).
kono pen ha akai (this pen is red).

For the second question the answer is yes...and learn the kana as fast as you can so you won't learn studying using our alphabet, which, if you ask me, it is the first mistake someone who want to study Japanese does.

[yuriyuri]

この、その、あの (kono, sono, ano) - Used with something after it
このペンは僕のだ。 (kono pen ha boku no da) - This pen is mine.

これ、それ、あれ (kore, sore, are) - Stand-alone
これはペンだ。(kore ha pen da) - This is a pen

And yes, spelling is as simple as that. The only things that you have to be careful of when it comes to spelling are a few exceptions for particles.

For example the most common mistake being the particle wa.
In romaji it is normally written as 'wa' because that is how it is pronounced, but it should be spelled with the hiragana for 'ha' (は)

Which is why you should try to not use romaji at all if you can help it, since it will just lead to confusion later on.

But from your post it sounds like you are taking a class, so if it is any good they will tell you this stuff anyway (That is assuming it isn't one of those classes that stays on romaji for years on end.)

[berrypie]

Well ya, someone has just explained but I would like to say a little bit more.

Kore, Sore, Are stand alone and they always refer to something, just like This and That in English.

When attached with a noun, in English we still use This or That but in Japanese you use Kono Sono Ano + noun.

Everyone has a hard time learning the kana... my way of learning is listening to Japanese anime song while staring at the lyrics at the same time Gradually I memorize all the kana with no problem at all.

And yes it's better to learn kana as early as possible before you start learning anything else... 'coz it's really painful to express Japanese in Romanji (= Japanese kana in English alphabet). And you need to learn kanji too......

Oops sounds like I am scarring people away......

[coldsymphony13]

Thanks for all of your responses and your advice. I'm not in an actual class I'm doing it with a friend from home, I am really glad I found this forum though. -- I will throw out romanji as you guys suggest.

So just to make sure I understand, because the third post threw me off slightly.

If you were stating simply "this is a pen" it would be kore, sore, are.

But stating something more specific about the pen, such as it is mine, it's red, etc... Would use "no"?

Ugh sorry for the confusion.

[yuriyuri]

kore, sore, are - Use stand-alone
kono, sono, ano - must have something following them

kore - This
kono～ - This ～

Examples:
kore ha pen da - Correct
kono pen ha akai - Correct

kono ha pen da - Incorrect
kore pen ha akai - Incorrect

So you aren't taking a class.
Are you learning from text books?
If not (Or even if you are) take a look at this website for a start on grammar.
You will learn enough here to start basic reading in Japanese:
Tae Kim's Japanese guide to Japanese grammar - You must be able to read kana to use this website though, so it's a good chance to get to work on throwing away the Romaji

[coldsymphony13]

Ok I think I understand. Thank you so much for your help... I'm sure I'll be around here alot haha...

I have a video series called "Let's Learn Japanese Basic I" -- and I also have borrowed from a friend a japanese program from "Rosetta Stone". I've only used the first source so far though.. I think today I am going to get flash cards and work on memorizing the alphabet.

[KyleGoetz]

Originally Posted by coldsymphony13

Hi. I've recently started learning Japanese and I just had a few questions to clarify a couple of things:

kono, sono, and ano vs sore, kore, and are.

the ono's are specific so for example you would say

"Kono wa pen desu." but you wouldn't ever say "Kore wa pen desu." due to pen being speficially in the sentence already. Is this correct? Because on one of the learning videos before we got into "kono, sono, and ano" they do use kore and a noun in the sentence at the same time... So I am just slightly confused on the difference.


My second question is just about spelling and writing. For example "kasa" would be the hirogana symbols for ka and sa. Is it as simple as that? Thanks alot.

No one seems to have answered your second question: Yes, it is as simple as that. However, don't get confused when "n," "wa," "y," double consonants, and "e" are involved!

For "wa," if it is used as the "topic marker," you will write "ha" even though you say "wa." Similarly, if "e" is used as a particle marking a destination, write "he" even though you say "e."

Double consonants in romaji are basically rendered as a little "tsu" plus what it would be if the double consonant were a single consonant. Example: "tatte" would be "ta" + little "tsu" + "te." たって.

When you have a consonant immediate followed by a "y" and then a/o/u, you do it as if there were an "i" in between the consonant and the "y," but then write the ya/yu/yo small. Example: "nya" = ni + little ya = にゃ as opposed to にや.

As far as "n" is concerned, "n" is the only Japanese consonant that does not have to be paired with a vowel. Accordingly, it is important to be sure you're not getting confused. For example, こんやく and こにゃく are written the same in romaji (konyaku) but mean different things and are pronounced differently. One is like engagement, and the other is a food (an elephant yam). This is why you sometimes see an "n" by itself written as n'. Thus, you can distinguish the two above by writing one as konyaku and the other as kon'yaku.

This confusion is why you need to stop using romaji ASAP.

Good luck!

[coldsymphony13]

I began learning hiragana with my friend. We are memorizing the vowels first. -- Question though... What is the real difference between hiragana and katakana? They seem to have the same sounds but just different symbols... THis makes it confusing, do you mix and match hiragana and katakana PLUS kanji or what?? Should I be learning hiragana and katakana at the same time??


Also what do you guys feel about the programs "Let's Learn japanese basic I through II" and Rosetta Stone, Japanese? If you guys know what they are anyway, are they reputable?

[KyleGoetz]

Originally Posted by coldsymphony13

I began learning hiragana with my friend. We are memorizing the vowels first. -- Question though... What is the real difference between hiragana and katakana? They seem to have the same sounds but just different symbols... THis makes it confusing, do you mix and match hiragana and katakana PLUS kanji or what?? Should I be learning hiragana and katakana at the same time??


Also what do you guys feel about the programs "Let's Learn japanese basic I through II" and Rosetta Stone, Japanese? If you guys know what they are anyway, are they reputable?

Does Wikipedia not exist where you live? Kana - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Read the second sentence.