た方がいいです と てもいいです

[hatsuto11]

Originally Posted by Harumaki

マア、インターネットで明らかにhatsuto11さんはどのぐら い日本語ができるかを全然分からないものです。けーれ ーどっ、いままで文法の間違いや変な言い方は使ったこ とがありません。
ですから、多分もう十分で上手な日本語が使えるわけで はないでしょうか；－)
ところで、どんな本買っちゃったんですか？あれの名前 何だけ?

Hhh do ya really think so?! Anyway, as to your question regarding the books i've been using so far, i think that i already told ya i learn japanese through the interent, therefore, i don't have books. But I ordered a parcel of textbooks a while ago and unfortunately the moment they reached my home, i discovered they were difficult to my level and i could not get any advantage of them. Moreover, i ordered どんな時どう使う日本語表現文型 but i am not sure it will be delivered since it is my first time to by from that website and i might me scammed, i donno:O
Anyway, there's no use comparing your academic Japanese with mine lol))

[hatsuto11]

Originally Posted by yuriyuri

Just because I feel as though this needs to be pointed out:



貴方 - Why the kanji? And why not use your name?
日本語で - Should it be 日本語が? (“fluent in”の検索結果（31 件）：英辞郎 on the Web：スペースアルク)
Why みたいに with a sentence ending in ます? surely this is an imbalance?

Don't worry, my post is not just to point these things out, but also to give useful links on the grammar the OP asked about:
てもいい - Expressing "must" or "have to" | Tae Kim's Guide to Learning Japanese
方がいい - Using 「方」 and 「よる」 | Tae Kim's Guide to Learning Japanese

Look, you might be right about the wrong usage of the particle 'de'. Yes that's right, i should use 'ga' because 'de' makes no sense there. As for mitaini, I don't know if you are right or wrong! Maybe you are better than me in using that word I mean, it may be unsuitable to use it in that context as you mentioned. Can ya plz tell me with wut i can replace it?
As to 貴方, i don't think that Japanese might have any rules that prevent me from writing it with kanji! It is not wrong! for instance, the word kawaii can sometimes be written as:かわいいand sometimes they write is as:可愛い. I don't think that you can consider that a mistake! Do never forget that Japanese was formerly written using kanji ONLY. And kanji is the main element in the japanese script. Those characters are the source of the concept themselves! Anyway, thx 4 ur notes

[duo797]

Originally Posted by hatsuto11

Look, you might be right about the wrong usage of the particle 'de'. Yes that's right, i should use 'ga' because 'de' makes no sense there. As for mitaini, I don't know if you are right or wrong! Maybe you are better than me in using that word I mean, it may be unsuitable to use it in that context as you mentioned. Can ya plz tell me with wut i can replace it?
As to 貴方, i don't think that Japanese might have any rules that prevent me from writing it with kanji! It is not wrong! for instance, the word kawaii can sometimes be written as:かわいいand sometimes they write is as:可愛い. I don't think that you can consider that a mistake! Do never forget that Japanese was formerly written using kanji ONLY. And kanji is the main element in the japanese script. Those characters are the source of the concept themselves! Anyway, thx 4 ur notes

Actually, it was CHINESE that was written using only Hanzi before, and in the times when stories like the Tales of Genji were written, male intellectuals wrote using Chinese, not Japanese. I'm not entirely up on my history of Hiragana, but I'm pretty sure that it was an adaptation that women used so they had a way to communicate and was later adopted by men too.
Quoting the wiki article on The Tales of Genji:
As with most Heian literature, the Genji was probably written mostly (or perhaps entirely) in kana (Japanese phonetic script) and not in Chinese characters because it was written by a woman for a female audience. Writing in Chinese characters was at the time a masculine pursuit; women were generally discreet when using Chinese symbols, confining themselves mostly to pure Japanese words.

There is no explicit rule that you can't use as much kanji as you want, but for the same reason that it is considered incorrect and awkward for me to write in elizabethan english, native Japanese speakers don't use kanji for everything. Even with my limited experience reading Japanese, I've seen あなた written in kanji only a few times, and it was for a more complex purpose than 'using kanji for kanji's sake'.

Another reason you don't always use kanji is that one compound can have multiple readings. The easiest example for me to think of is 今日. When I see 今日 my first instinct is *always* that it is read きょう but another way to read it is こんにち. The salutation こんにちは！ will sometimes be written by beginners as 今日は！ and even though I'm not a native speaker as I'm reading I always expect there to be more sentence following, as in 今日は雨が降りました (Today it rained). Don't get me wrong, any native speaker will realize from context that the speaker means こんにちは and not きょうは, but it can be a bit jarring and it disrupts the flow of the sentence. Just like in your own native language, the flow of a composition (or readability) goes a long way towards making you seem more natural.

Just one more time before I finish my post I want to emphasize: If Japanese was EVER written using only Kanji, it was almost immediately after they were introduced to Hanzi (Kanji) and the standard now is NOT all Kanji. Just because there is a Kanji for a word or compound does not mean it is considered correct to use it (I believe the yahoo.jp dictionary actually indicates when it's standard to write using ひらがな instead of 漢字 for a fair number of words). It's not always a matter of personal opinion, sometimes it's a matter of being proper or not.

[chryuop]

Great thread

Thanx alot Kyle, a very complete post.

[hatsuto11]

[quote=duo797;789803]Actually, it was CHINESE that was written using only Hanzi beforeQUOTE]

You should be kidding lol The chinese is STILL written using only hanzi You don't need to say before:P

[hatsuto11]

Originally Posted by duo797

Actually, it was CHINESE that was written using only Hanzi before, and in the times when stories like the Tales of Genji were written, male intellectuals wrote using Chinese, not Japanese. I'm not entirely up on my history of Hiragana, but I'm pretty sure that it was an adaptation that women used so they had a way to communicate and was later adopted by men too.
Quoting the wiki article on The Tales of Genji:
As with most Heian literature, the Genji was probably written mostly (or perhaps entirely) in kana (Japanese phonetic script) and not in Chinese characters because it was written by a woman for a female audience. Writing in Chinese characters was at the time a masculine pursuit; women were generally discreet when using Chinese symbols, confining themselves mostly to pure Japanese words.

There is no explicit rule that you can't use as much kanji as you want, but for the same reason that it is considered incorrect and awkward for me to write in elizabethan english, native Japanese speakers don't use kanji for everything. Even with my limited experience reading Japanese, I've seen あなた written in kanji only a few times, and it was for a more complex purpose than 'using kanji for kanji's sake'.

Another reason you don't always use kanji is that one compound can have multiple readings. The easiest example for me to think of is 今日. When I see 今日 my first instinct is *always* that it is read きょう but another way to read it is こんにち. The salutation こんにちは！ will sometimes be written by beginners as 今日は！ and even though I'm not a native speaker as I'm reading I always expect there to be more sentence following, as in 今日は雨が降りました (Today it rained). Don't get me wrong, any native speaker will realize from context that the speaker means こんにちは and not きょうは, but it can be a bit jarring and it disrupts the flow of the sentence. Just like in your own native language, the flow of a composition (or readability) goes a long way towards making you seem more natural.

Just one more time before I finish my post I want to emphasize: If Japanese was EVER written using only Kanji, it was almost immediately after they were introduced to Hanzi (Kanji) and the standard now is NOT all Kanji. Just because there is a Kanji for a word or compound does not mean it is considered correct to use it (I believe the yahoo.jp dictionary actually indicates when it's standard to write using ひらがな instead of 漢字 for a fair number of words). It's not always a matter of personal opinion, sometimes it's a matter of being proper or not.

Just as you mentioned, the context can clarify anything.... But I don't really understand how is that related to 'anata'. Obviously that word cannot be read in a different way!
Furthermore, I am still totally persuaded that Japanese was formerly written using Kanji ONLY. And the best evidence for that is the 古事記 which was the first japanese book ever!
Since the Japanese did NOT have a way to write at first, they adopted the Chinese hanzi and started to write their own language using it following the Chinese grammar. Afterwards, they started to express the japanese grammatical patterns using phonetic hanzi and the language was still written using only hanzi at that time! But as you mentioned, women were finding it difficult to remember a very huge amount of kanji which was used at that time and consequently they innovated the kana.

As for what you mentioned (concerning whether it is a personal opinion or not....), i believe you are biased to the japanese alphabet and i don't know why you really are Have ya ever thought of the origin of hiragana and katakana???? They didn't come from the air lol! They Japanese people simplified some phonetic kanji into those silly letters and you can check that in wikipedia if you want. The beauty of the japanese script is in its kanji and there's no use defending hiragana which made japanese look simple and hid its beauty!
Even though the US tried to get rid of them after it defeated japan post WW2 forcing the japanese people to reduce their number, Japan NEVER EVER stopped using them and they tried to protect them as much as they could. i believe that Kanji is not entirely chinese and it is an indispensable part of the Japanese culture.
＊＊＊＊漢字＝文化
＊＊＊＊平仮名・片仮名＝戯言
Bear that in mind

[yuriyuri]

Originally Posted by hatsuto11

As for mitaini, I don't know if you are right or wrong! Maybe you are better than me in using that word I mean, it may be unsuitable to use it in that context as you mentioned. Can ya plz tell me with wut i can replace it?

I was thinking のように

Originally Posted by hatsuto11

As to 貴方, i don't think that Japanese might have any rules that prevent me from writing it with kanji! It is not wrong!

There is no law or anything saying you mustn't write it in kanji, but it can look un-natural to write absolutely everything in kanji... Especially when most people will write that word in hiragana.

Just for the sake of throwing some random very rough numbers out here lets use google hits:
"貴方" の検索結果 約 19,200,000
"あなた" の検索結果 約 269,000,000

Also I decided to bring it up because I wanted to know why you decided on あなた when Harumaki's user name is clearly visible.
Surely if you have to refer to him Harumakiさん would be better.
And just because I'm on the subject of pronouns, if you don't do it already avoid using pronouns as much as possible.

Hope this helps you out

[hatsuto11]

Originally Posted by yuriyuri

I was thinking のように



There is no law or anything saying you mustn't write it in kanji, but it can look un-natural to write absolutely everything in kanji... Especially when most people will write that word in hiragana.

Just for the sake of throwing some random very rough numbers out here lets use google hits:
"貴方" の検索結果 約 19,200,000
"あなた" の検索結果 約 269,000,000

Also I decided to bring it up because I wanted to know why you decided on あなた when Harumaki's user name is clearly visible.
Surely if you have to refer to him Harumakiさん would be better.
And just because I'm on the subject of pronouns, if you don't do it already avoid using pronouns as much as possible.

Hope this helps you out

Look, i know very well that i should avoid using pronouns in Japanese since they don't like to refer to each other directly, but what do you think I can do?! I simply like the pronoun 'anata' because it is the same that we use in Arabic! That's all.... I just like that pronoun.... and if Harumaki felt offended of that (i don't think he may feel so), i would avoid using it with him.
Plus, I prefer using 貴方 (written in kanji) because i see it nicer that way... And believe me the japanese themselves also write it that way and they did that multiple times when e-mailing me, therefore, i would never think of asking ya to correct that

[yuriyuri]

Well, 十人十色 I guess

I can also say from personal experience that for some bizarre reason, some Japanese seem to go into pronoun overdrive only when they are talking to me.
It's strange because the pronouns are obviously not needed, and they would obviously not use them with another Japanese.
The other day someone actually used 私 in every sentence.
I was in shock lol

Anyway, I hope you don't mind but I have a little correction on your English.
(Or rather, not correction, but something for you to take note of)

Originally Posted by hatsuto11

Look, i know very well that i should avoid using pronouns in Japanese~~

Using the word "Look" like this makes you sound quite rude, which I am sure you don't mean to do.
It makes it seem as though you are speaking down on me, despite the fact that I have tried to help you out.
But since you are not a native English speaker I'm hoping it's just a mistake because you don't know the feeling it can give.

(Any future English corrections I will just PM you )

[duo797]

Originally Posted by hatsuto11

Look, i know very well that i should avoid using pronouns in Japanese since they don't like to refer to each other directly, but what do you think I can do?! I simply like the pronoun 'anata' because it is the same that we use in Arabic! That's all.... I just like that pronoun.... and if Harumaki felt offended of that (i don't think he may feel so), i would avoid using it with him.
Plus, I prefer using 貴方 (written in kanji) because i see it nicer that way... And believe me the japanese themselves also write it that way and they did that multiple times when e-mailing me, therefore, i would never think of asking ya to correct that

I don't think people get as offended on the internet (because it's the internet), and they're also more direct. Also, you may be interested in knowing that あなた is also a way that a wife might affectionately call for her husband instead of using his name. It's obvious no one here is married to you, but just so you know