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[biocit]

Originally Posted by MMM

For the third time, I am speaking in general and not about anything you are doing specifically.

I don't know about today, but when I first started teaching English in Japan the older textbooks, (probably from the 1980s) had katakana over every word of English, much like Sashimaster's signature.

When a student was called on to read aloud in class, which do you think he was reading, the romaji or the katakana?

Is there any doubt as to why most Japanese adults have such poor pronunciation and abilities in English?

You see the same thing in Korea, yet I don't see them using hangul over every English text book. Accents aren't something you can just get rid of by using the source alphabet. It's by LISTENING.

[KyleGoetz]

Look, I'm going to back off.

Things got heated because I have very strong opinions about how certain pedagogical techniques do more harm than good. I get especially worried when I see someone teaching in a way I think is not good.

I mean, the "it's your opinion" defense doesn't work when you're actively hurting other people in my opinion.

But whatever, I'm not going to change you. I just hope what you do is productive for your visitors' sake.

I'm sorry I got frustrated at you. I hope we understand each other.

Good luck!

And for the record, when I say you're being illogical, it's not an insult directed at you. It's a logical argument against what you're doing. I'm a lawyer, so I rarely resort to personal attacks when logical ones work better for me.

[biocit]

Originally Posted by KyleGoetz

Look, I'm going to back off.

Things got heated because I have very strong opinions about how certain pedagogical techniques do more harm than good. I get especially worried when I see someone teaching in a way I think is not good.

I mean, the "it's your opinion" defense doesn't work when you're actively hurting other people in my opinion.

But whatever, I'm not going to change you. I just hope what you do is productive for your visitors' sake.

I'm sorry I got frustrated at you. I hope we understand each other.

Good luck!

And for the record, when I say you're being illogical, it's not an insult directed at you. It's a logical argument against what you're doing. I'm a lawyer, so I rarely resort to personal attacks when logical ones work better for me.

That's fine. Sorry that it got a little heated; Doesn't mean we have to be mad at each other.

Good luck to you, too.

"And for the record, when I say you're being illogical, it's not an insult directed at you. It's a logical argument against what you're doing. I'm a lawyer, so I rarely resort to personal attacks when logical ones work better for me."

haha. I love arguing, but it sometimes get a little out of hand. That's probably a fault in my thinking.

[MMM]

Originally Posted by biocit

俺のこと侮辱する必要あるの？別に悪い意味でここ来た んじゃないし。大人らしくないよな。　お前がやりたい こともう知ってるよ、俺がちょっとでも間違いすれば人 に教えられる義務はないと言うんだろう？

I hope this isn't directed at me.

Originally Posted by biocit

You see the same thing in Korea, yet I don't see them using hangul over every English text book. Accents aren't something you can just get rid of by using the source alphabet. It's by LISTENING.

Do you think it is a good policy, or a bad one to put the katakana or hangul over the English in a textbook?

[biocit]

Originally Posted by MMM

I hope this isn't directed at me.



Do you think it is a good policy, or a bad one to put the katakana or hangul over the English in a textbook?

1) It's directed at hamburger boy. He wanted me to prove that I know enough Japanese to teach others. The way he talks really annoys me.

2) It's definitely not beneficial in many foreseeable ways, but I don't believe it to be so harmful that it affects their grammar and speech in the long run.

[MMM]

Originally Posted by biocit

2) It's definitely not beneficial in many foreseeable ways, but I don't believe it to be so harmful that it affects their grammar and speech in the long run.

I think it can and often does.

[biocit]

Ok, I take number 2 back. Learning English through katakana would definitely mess up your speech, but I'm not talking about that. There's no real difference to using "Ga" over ”が”。　English is a flexible enough language that different sounds can be defined differently whilst using the same letters. Not knowing how to say, "Onegai Shimasu" using romaji is not the fault of romanized letters, but it's the lack of knowledge in Japanese speech and pronunciation. Just by knowing kana does not give you a Japanese accent.

[biocit]

Originally Posted by Sashimister

Why are you so slow? Can't you start seeing things in relative terms?

What I did is exactly what you're trying to teach people to do, which is writing Language A using the letters of Language B.

Not cool.
___

Reply in Japanese if your Japanese is good enough to teach others.

ゴチャゴチャうん蓄タレるに、のでホントににられるだ けのがあることをしてみろ、ドアホ！

”Why are you so slow、Can't you start seeing things in relative terms?"
"ドアホ”

these are pretty relative in terms of you insulting me. Calling me a moron and then excusing it by saying, "See the big picture, moron". I see two messages: 1) You, trying to tell me I'm wrong. 2) An insult.

[MMM]

Originally Posted by biocit

Ok, I take number 2 back. Learning English through katakana would definitely mess up your speech, but I'm not talking about that. There's no real difference to using "Ga" over ”が”。　English is a flexible enough language that different sounds can be defined differently whilst using the same letters. Not knowing how to say, "Onegai Shimasu" using romaji is not the fault of romanized letters, but it's the lack of knowledge in Japanese speech and pronunciation. Just by knowing kana does not give you a Japanese accent.

There is no difference between が and "ga", but there surely is between ら and "ra", おお and "oo", えい and "ei", ふ and "fu", つ and "tu", し and "si" etc.

Bad habits start in the beginning. Fixing them later gets harder every day that goes by. This is why pronunciation and kana start from Day 1.

[biocit]

English can be manipulated in a way where it has the means to describe almost any sound. "si" is the placeholder for し、just like how し　is the place holder for the sound.

What I'm trying to say is that you can say "Onegai Shimasu" in the same way you can say, "お願いします”。 There's absolutely no difference. Alphabets are just placeholders for sounds.

While you certainly can't produce the same sounds as a native English speaker by writing in katakana, you can definitely produce the same sounds by using romaji to describe kana.