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03-02-2010, 05:11 AM
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R is merely a symbol. Like many Roman letters, the sound it represents differs from language to language, and sometimes from dialect to dialect, and a language may even use it for different sounds in different words. It would be more accurate to say "forget the English R sound, because it doesn't exist in Japanese". The Japanese sound transliterated as "r" in romaji is somewhat unique, but it has some resemblance to Spanish single "r", a fact which might help some students. (Personally, I never mastered Spanish single "r" either, and the trilled "rr" has completely escaped me to this day. But it's that experience which taught me that "r" is far from a uniform sound.) 
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03-02-2010, 05:21 AM
The Japanese "R" is very similar to the Arabic way of saying "R", so I'm able to pronounce it. I know quite a few people who have practiced repetitively until they've they lea how rned to pronounce... you can probably do so using youtube videos for help. It's just one of those things that take ages to master I guess! But once you're able to successfully "purrrr" like a kitten is when you know you've got it.
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03-02-2010, 12:21 PM
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03-02-2010, 09:52 PM
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Speaking in detail, it depends on words and situation. I can pronounce /ra ri ru re ro/ with my tongue landing near the area 6, but when I pronounce them clearly, in most cases, it lands in between 4 and 5. It is clear that non-natives fail to pronounce if they try to pronounce /ra ri ru re ro/ near the area 6 or beyond (7,8,9).
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03-03-2010, 01:17 AM
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I'm happy to redraw my diagram but I really would like to see some kind of references. The two pictures of English R and English dark L on the page I quoted (What is roomaji `r' really? - sci.lang.japan Frequently Asked Questions) are from a book called "The Pronunciation of English" by Daniel Jones, and I believe they were actually made by putting a string of lead beads on somebody's tongue and taking an X ray of the head as they made the sounds.  The book is quite old so maybe that was an acceptable method then, but maybe not now. Perhaps one would use some kind of scanner like a CAT scanner or something. The Japanese R position is something I made based on Japanese Pronunciation guide for English Speakers using Microsoft Paint to alter one of the pictures from Daniel Jones's book. I think it's about right but if you can give me a better reference or picture I'd be glad to know about it.
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03-19-2010, 11:13 AM
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Yes, I did read the opening post; I knew what you were responding to. But you did say "the letter R" in a rather universal tone, and I was being pedantic. I'm like that sometimes. And because of my own frustrations with the various ways of pronouncing "R", I wanted to comment. Sorry I upset you.
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03-19-2010, 11:35 AM
Its like the most debated thing for learning Japanese. Both native and native and non native and non native can't agree. I've seen natives say its more close to a R sound . Some say its more close to a L sound. I've seen natives give videos showing it, its slightly different every time. It is different between person to person. Noone can quite agree. Really it is its own sound that the English alphabet does not have a letter for.
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Confused -
04-01-2010, 11:46 PM
Given what was discussed early, this probably sounds like a stupid question. I am confused about when it sounds more like a l or r.
When I was in Japan a Japanese friend told me their is no difference between l and r. He gave the word for apple as an example. To me it sounded more like linguo than ringuo. Also I remember ordering ramen and the woman called it lamen. Would it be incorrect to say toli instead of tori or aligtou instead of arigatou?
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