some questions on numbers and particles

[pacerier]

lol i don't know why i read it as ぶん just now, i guess i'd got mixed up


anyway i've got another question on particles. i've learnt that ちちもははもせんせいです means both my mum and dad are teachers my question is this: is it possible to chain も particles in this sense:
both my mum and dad are teachers too! [as a reply] --> ちちもははももせんせいです

also if 写真をとってもいいですか means may i take pictures, can we chain the も particles in this sense may i take pictures too becomes 写真をとってももいいですか

[KyleGoetz]

Originally Posted by pacerier

lol i don't know why i read it as ぶん just now, i guess i'd got mixed up


anyway i've got another question on particles. i've learnt that ちちもははもせんせいです means both my mum and dad are teachers my question is this: is it possible to chain も particles in this sense:
both my mum and dad are teachers too! [as a reply] --> ちちもははももせんせいです

You already chained them together in the first. Your second has one too many もs. Your second sentence is grammatically wrong.

also if 写真をとってもいいですか means may i take pictures, can we chain the も particles in this sense may i take pictures too becomes 写真をとってももいいですか

No. Stop trying to add more もs than necessary!

In this sentence, the "too" refers to "I" not "to take pictures." Thus, if you really wanted to say "May I take pictures, too?" what you're actually saying is "May I [in addition to the other person who already has permission] take pictures?"

私も写真をとってもいいですか。

Do you understand? English lets "too/also" get ambiguous as to what it is modifying much more easily than Japanese does.

Your first step is to determine "what is the "too" referring to here?" Then apply も (or something else) to the correct part.

A great illustrative example:
May I throw a ball, too?
Does the "too" mean "may I throw [say, a rock] and also throw a ball" or "may I throw a ball in addition to PERSON, who is also throwing a ball"?

If the first,
[私は]ボールも投げてもいいですか。
If the second,
私もボールを投げてもいいですか。

Do you understand the difference now?

Edit I've been watching you for a while, and I think one of your biggest obstacles right now is your tendency to try and translate every word in your English sentence into Japanese and then mash them together. You cannot do this.

[RickOShay]

Originally Posted by KyleGoetz

千 is the biggest numeral where this is still possible, right? Starting with 万, it always must be preceded by a number, right? 一万、一億, etc, right? Like 1200 is 千二百, but 12000 is 一万二千.

I have never seen 兆 use anything, but then again I have never seen or heard 兆 used in an actual sentence.

[pacerier]

sry i still have a bit of problem with the も particle, e.g i had this conversation:

Ash: my mother and father are both teachers --> ちちもははもせんせいです
Bruce: my mother and father are both teachers too! --> ?

[Nyororin]

Originally Posted by RickOShay

I have never seen 兆 use anything, but then again I have never seen or heard 兆 used in an actual sentence.

They use it all the time on the news and in the newspaper... And in my memory it is also always preceded by a number. 一兆円 for example.

[KyleGoetz]

Originally Posted by pacerier

sry i still have a bit of problem with the も particle, e.g i had this conversation:

Ash: my mother and father are both teachers --> ちちもははもせんせいです
Bruce: my mother and father are both teachers too! --> ?

The same thing is sufficient, although a native could probably tell you something with a bit better nuance than I.

I think I'd instinctively say ぼくのりょうしんとおなじだ or ぼくのりょうしんもそうだ. (my parents are the same or my parents are like that, too) instead of trying to force a one-to-one translation of the English. But that's because I think in Japanese when speaking Japanese, so I wouldn't be trying to perfectly translate an English phrase into Japanese. "OK, how to I use that 'too' at the end???" Nope! That's not the good way to think when speaking!

[pacerier]

ok i'l try to refrain from direct translation. thanks for the examples in the previous post.


regarding particles, i've heard that の can be an "equivalent indicator". the examples of my textbook have the right side of the の as a name.
e.g.1 わたしのいぬのチロはてりあです
e.g.2 あのほんはともだちのひろこさんにあげました

so my question is that is it required for the right side of the の to be a name, if not what else could be substituted?

[KyleGoetz]

Originally Posted by pacerier

ok i'l try to refrain from direct translation. thanks for the examples in the previous post.


regarding particles, i've heard that の can be an "equivalent indicator". the examples of my textbook have the right side of the の as a name.
e.g.1 わたしのいぬのチロはてりあです
e.g.2 あのほんはともだちのひろこさんにあげました

so my question is that is it required for the right side of the の to be a name, if not what else could be substituted?

It's very, very difficult to answer your question on a forum. There are so many uses for の that I don't really want to try and explain here.

Could you limit your question in some way to make it so we don't end up typing about a hundred pages of explanation?

Think of の as meaning a few different things:
1. 's (possession) 私の猫 (my cat)
2. definition 友達のほろこちゃん (my friend Hiroko)
3. emphasis or question as a sentence-ending particle ピザをたべたの？ (Did you eat pizza?)
4. nominalization たべるのが好きだ (I like eating)

There are others, but it's 6:30 am and I can't think straight.

[pacerier]

just for the usage on 2. definition, is a name compulsory on the right side of the の like 友達のほろこちゃん

[MMM]

Originally Posted by pacerier

just for the usage on 2. definition, is a name compulsory on the right side of the の like 友達のほろこちゃん

Yes, or else it wouldn't be a definition.