some questions on numbers and particles

[pacerier]

You add のに mostly to adjectives and verbs but not to nouns like 金持ち.

thanks for pointing that out =) i'll keep it in mind

In casual everyday speech, it is completely correct and natural to start a sentence with なので （なんで in Kanto and greater Eastern Japan） to say "That's why ~~~~~~~~".
「雪で電車が２時間も止まっちゃったの。なんで友達に 会う時間がないのよ。ショック～。 」

if i'm not in Kanto/greater Eastern Japan and i start a sentence with なんで instead of なので (to mean that's why), will it be confusing to the listener? in written, should i strictly be using なので instead of なんで or are both fine.

if i'm not wrong, the で in ので is to join the left part of the sentence to the right part of the sentence. if this is the case is it true to say that unlike から, ので can never come at the end of a sentence.


also in this sentence: 晩ご飯を作っておく, how do i furthur conjugate the 作っておく into past tence to mean "Made dinner (in advance for the future)"



side question: as for the ている conjugation, is it very common for us to hear it without the い (just てる), or do natives usually include it in speech as well

[Sashimister]

Originally Posted by pacerier

if i'm not in Kanto/greater Eastern Japan and i start a sentence with なんで instead of なので (to mean that's why), will it be confusing to the listener? in written, should i strictly be using なので instead of なんで or are both fine.

It will be confusing if the other things you say don't sound Kanto. Know what I mean? If you say certain words in the Kanto colloquial style, certain words in standard Japanese, and the others with a thick English accent, you sure will sound horrible. You need to be near fluent before you worry about what you asked. Just worry about standard Japanese for now. I didn't mean to introduce a dialectal colloquialism with なんで. I mentioned it only because someone had answered your question wrong.

if i'm not wrong, the で in ので is to join the left part of the sentence to the right part of the sentence. if this is the case is it true to say that unlike から, ので can never come at the end of a sentence.

Not true at all. You will very often hear ので used at the end of the sentence to mean "because".

also in this sentence: 晩ご飯を作っておく, how do i furthur conjugate the 作っておく into past tence to mean "Made dinner (in advance for the future)"

Just conjugate the おく part. It's a verb so it conjugates.
作っておいた/作っておきました

side question: as for the ている conjugation, is it very common for us to hear it without the い (just てる), or do natives usually include it in speech as well

We omit the い very often in convos.

[pacerier]

ok for now i'll stick to the なので instead of the colloquial なんで when its used at the start of a sentence.

anyway i was wondering when we use the 「なら」 condition, must the left side strictly be in plain form? is this allowed: みんなが行きますなら私も行きます


also if we were to say "Mr.A became X, Y, Z", do we need to repeat なる 3 times (once for X, once for Y, and once for Z). is this acceptable:
去年から背が高くなって体が大きくなったね。
(ps is 体が大きい allowed?)


regarding the question whether けど will mean "and" or "but", if the conversation goes like this:
A: 休みの間に何をしましたか。
B: マトリックスを見たけどよくなかった。
are we able to tell if its a "and" or "but" in this context, or is it safe to just treat けど as a "delimiter"

[KyleGoetz]

Originally Posted by pacerier

ok for now i'll stick to the なので instead of the colloquial なんで when its used at the start of a sentence.

anyway i was wondering when we use the 「なら」 condition, must the left side strictly be in plain form? is this allowed: みんなが行きますなら私も行きます

All I can say about that is that a Google search reveals very few results for polite+nara: "ますなら" - Google Search
I'd conclude that you should avoid doing so. Just throwing that out there until a better answer comes along.

also if we were to say "Mr.A became X, Y, Z", do we need to repeat なる 3 times (once for X, once for Y, and once for Z).

XとYとZになる is fine (assuming X, Y, and Z are nouns). Heh, at first, I read your question as another about なら and totally answered it wrong!

is this acceptable:
去年から背が高くなって体が大きくなったね。
(ps is 体が大きい allowed?)

Yes. “体が大き”の検索結果（7 件）：英辞郎 on the Web：スペースアルク
Although personally I might say なってくる instead of just using なる to emphasize that I've come to be tall and large. But it doesn't make yours wrong; it's just a different flavor of saying the same basic idea.

[berrypie]

Originally Posted by KyleGoetz

Although personally I might say なってくる instead of just using なる to emphasize that I've come to be tall and large. But it doesn't make yours wrong; it's just a different flavor of saying the same basic idea.

I noticed that て-form + くる is fairly freqently used. It's not difficult for me to grab its meaning when I am reading on it, but it is difficult for me to make use of it. My problem is, I don't exactly know what て-form + くる means. May I have someone explain this please?

[KyleGoetz]

Originally Posted by berrypie

I noticed that て-form + くる is fairly freqently used. It's not difficult for me to grab its meaning when I am reading on it, but it is difficult for me to make use of it. My problem is, I don't exactly know what て-form + くる means. May I have someone explain this please?

Basically, it emphasizes that something has come to be true and is still true.

背が高くなって来た
I have come to be taller.
背が高くなった
I became taller.

That one may not make much difference, since you rarely get shorter, but here's another example:
日本に引っ越して来た
I moved to Japan [and still live in Japan].
日本に引っ越した
I moved to Japan.

Contrast these with
日本に引っ越していった
which sounds like I moved to Japan [and don't live there anymore].

Note that neither of these are written with kanji like 行く or 来る.

[pacerier]

heys thanks for the explanation on て-form + くる/いる

as for "if we were to say "Mr.A became X, Y, Z", do we need to repeat なる 3 times (once for X, once for Y, and once for Z). ", if XYZ are not nouns but adjectives (like became taller, bigger, etc), must we conjugate each individual adjective with なる?
(this is what i have now: 去年から背が高くなって体が大きくなってきたね)


regarding 「なら」 conditional, will this be a valid sentence: 遅いなら家へ帰らなければなりません


as for 「と」 conditional, does it give the "that'll surely happen" feeling. if i were to say this これを食べると絶対許さない, does it sound "stronger" than これを食べるなら絶対許さない or is it that the listener won't really notice the difference.

[KyleGoetz]

Originally Posted by pacerier

heys thanks for the explanation on て-form + くる/いる

as for "if we were to say "Mr.A became X, Y, Z", do we need to repeat なる 3 times (once for X, once for Y, and once for Z). ", if XYZ are not nouns but adjectives (like became taller, bigger, etc), must we conjugate each individual adjective with なる?
(this is what i have now: 去年から背が高くなって体が大きくなってきたね)

My sense is that yes, because here you have two subjects, so you must have two predicates. One subject is 背 (because it's followed by the subject particle が), and the other is 体 (for the same reason). Thus, you need two predicates. This is my sense, anyhow.

However, this is just a glitch in the system because these are stock phrases. I'm sure you're really getting at something more general about listing how Mr. A has taken on traits X, Y, and Z.

Suppose we're talking about a noun A, that has become redder, bigger, and older: Xは大きくて赤くて古くなってきた。

Here, you could just use the て-form of the adjectives to link them. It just doesn't work in your sample sentence because we can't link the adjectives since they're each part of a set phrase (背が高い and 体が大きい).

But again, I'm really guessing here. Maybe you can say 背が高くて体が大きくなってきた。

However, I'm not sure if that sounds more like "I am tall, and my body has gotten bigger" rather than "I have gotten taller and bigger." I'll defer to a native with the hope that I was right but the warning that I may not be.

regarding 「なら」 conditional, will this be a valid sentence: 遅いなら家へ帰らなければなりません

To the best of my knowledge, it is permitted to say い-adj + なら.

However, I think (and I'm a bit weak on the various implications of conditionals) that なら indicates some sort of assumption on the speaker's part. Like "Oh, if you mean if it turns out to be late? Then yeah we've gotta go back home."

Personally I think I would say something like 遅かったら家へ帰らなければならない or 遅ければ家へ帰らなければならない or something. (Or, instead of conjugating 遅い, you might use 遅くなる.) The -ba form is a general conditional form. The -tara form is kind of similar, but they each have their own special uses. I really feel -tara is more conversational, too. The "t" is harder than the "b." But like I've said in another thread, I'm still on my journey to refine my ear to sense when something sounds nicer or not.

as for 「と」 conditional, does it give the "that'll surely happen" feeling.

Yes. AとB means something like "It is natural that B will occur after A" or "If A occurs, B surely follows."

if i were to say this これを食べると絶対許さない, does it sound "stronger" than これを食べるなら絶対許さない or is it that the listener won't really notice the difference.

This question I'll defer to another. I've always felt unsure of using と to make something sound "assured" when it really isn't a natural phenomenon. Personally, I'd not do it, but that's because of my lack of assurance.

I look forward to seeing a skilled person's answer to this question so I can learn, too! I think these were good questions.

[Sashimister]

Originally Posted by KyleGoetz

But again, I'm really guessing here. Maybe you can say 背が高くて体が大きくなってきた。

This sentence sounds pretty straining to me. I would say it 背が高くなって体も大きくなってきた. Even a more natural way to say it would be 背が伸びて身体も大きくなってきた。

（I just prefer writing からだ as 身体 rather than 体. OP, never mind me if your book gives you 体.）

If a native speaker ever said 背が高くて体が大きくなってきた, which he wouldn't, it would probably mean "(Someone) is tall to start with and now his body has gotten bigger as well."

Originally Posted by pacerier

　regarding 「なら」 conditional, will this be a valid sentence: 遅いなら家へ帰らなければなりません

It's grammatically correct but the chances are you won't ever hear it or say it. The only situation I could think of where that might be said is the following.

You go to another town to see a friend. Have a good time together. Before you know it, it is getting dark outside. You need to catch the last train home but your watch has stopped and so has your friend's! There are no clocks in the house, either. Your friend says he will hop over to his next-door neighbors and ask. Before he steps out of the house, you might say to him 遅いなら家へ帰らなければなりません, meaning "If it in fact turns out to be pretty late, Ill have to go home." Can't believe I even wrote this. May I just say "Forget that sentence." next time?

as for 「と」 conditional, does it give the "that'll surely happen" feeling. if i were to say this これを食べると絶対許さない, does it sound "stronger" than これを食べるなら絶対許さない or is it that the listener won't really notice the difference.

これを食べると絶対許さない sounds both strange AND wrong. Does your book say this?

これを食べるなら絶対許さない is good and natural.

Best and most natural is これを食べたら絶対許さない.
_________

When you use と, it means exactly what you and KyleGoetz said. "B happens as a natural result of A." It's automatic. B occurs like a chemical reaction.
However, 許す/許さない is a matter of personal emotions/opinions, not an automatic chemical reaction.

The following are correct:
冷凍庫に水を置いておくと氷になる。 冷凍庫（れいとうこ）= freezer
この薬を飲むと眠くなる。
春になると桜が咲く。
サシミスターと結婚すると幸せになる。<-- automatic, guaranteed!　

[pacerier]

ok i'll write からだ as 身体 too

You go to another town to see a friend. Have a good time together. Before you know it, it is getting dark outside. You need to catch the last train home but your watch has stopped and so has your friend's! There are no clocks in the house, either. Your friend says he will hop over to his next-door neighbors and ask. Before he steps out of the house, you might say to him 遅いなら家へ帰らなければなりません, meaning "If it in fact turns out to be pretty late, Ill have to go home."

heys cool this is a very good explanation with this example i think i roughly know when to or not to use なら

これを食べると絶対許さない sounds both strange AND wrong. Does your book say this?

oh it doesn't, i was attempting to form a sentence. From TaeKim's guide he had this sentence: 先生だと、きっと年上なんじゃないですか. I was wondering if this is a natural way to speak, if the sentence ends with a question should we use と, or would 「たら」 be more appropriate?



is there an exception to the rule "B happens as a natural result of A" if B is いけない/だめ/ならない? e.g. can i use これを食べないとだめだ to mean "you must eat"

as for いけない/だめ/ならない, is it the case that ならない is generally more for things that apply to more than one person like rules and policies. If it is, will it be true to say that いけない sounds stronger (and fiercer) than ならない. For example, will (1) sound stronger (more authoritative) than (2):
(1) 夜、遅くまで電話してはいけない
(2) 夜、遅くまで電話してはならない