some questions on numbers and particles

[pacerier]

are thin books usually counted with さつ or まい?
and also regarding the counter for number of years, would なんねん be preferred over なんねんかん

[Sashimister]

Originally Posted by pacerier

are thin books usually counted with さつ or まい?
and also regarding the counter for number of years, would なんねん be preferred over なんねんかん

You always ask questions using the fewest words possible, you know that? And I end up writing several times longer because I have to keep asking "Do you mean to ask ~~~?"

How thin are you referring to? When it's hard to picture that thin book in my head, it's hard to answer.

If it has more than 10-20 pages, it's often counted with さつ.　But some people would consider it not thick enough to use さつ and would rather use ぶ（部）. Officially, 部 will always be correct regardless of the book's size while some people will hesitate to use さつ when the book is "thin".

If it's just a folded piece of paper, use まい. Even then, 部 is still correct and "more official".

Note that 部 can only be used when talking about copies of the same book or brochure.

EDIT: Forgot to answer your last question.

なんねん and なんねんかん are grammatically interchangeable, with the latter sounding more "formal".

[pacerier]

ops sry i didn't realise that, i would try to phrase the question more clearly next time.

also what does it mean that 部 can only be used when talking about copies of the same book or brochure


regarding なんねんかん, is it true that in casual speech (friend to friend) i would be using なんねん instead of なんねんかん?

[Sashimister]

Originally Posted by pacerier

also what does it mean that 部 can only be used when talking about copies of the same book or brochure

Suppose there are 20 books here. They are all different books. They may be the books that you actually read last year. This is definitely counted as 20さつ.

You see 20 copies of the same book stacked up in the bookstore. That is 20部. Call that 20さつ and you will sound either like a kid or kinda uneducated.

regarding なんねんかん, is it true that in casual speech (friend to friend) i would be using なんねん instead of なんねんかん?

Well, I would say that was generally true. Real truth is there are always exeptions. なんねんかん is not all that formal, which is why I put the word in parentheses in my first post.

A question from me: Would kanji be a taboo in my replies? I feel like a dribbling kid writing なんねん or なんねんかん in kana.

[pacerier]

heys thanks for the information. to clarify, if in the photocopy machine there are 500 sheets of blank papers, i would use 部 instead of まい right?

anyway would 20部 be pronounced as にじゅっぷ?

also about the number 1000, is it pronounced as せん or いっせん


ps kanji would be ok i'l check it up online for its pronunciation

[Sashimister]

Originally Posted by pacerier

heys thanks for the information. to clarify, if in the photocopy machine there are 500 sheets of blank papers, i would use 部 instead of まい right?

No. That's 枚（まい）.

To call a sheet of paper 部, things must be printed on it.

anyway would 20部 be pronounced as にじゅっぷ?

I'm gald you asked. It's にじゅうぶ .

also about the number 1000, is it pronounced as せん or いっせん

Over 99% of the time, it's せん. When you really must emphasize the number, it's pronounced いっせん.

ps kanji would be ok i'l check it up online for its pronunciation

Splended. I'll just use the easy ones for now.

[pacerier]

ok cool, what software do you use to type japanese anyway?

==
Is it because that 部 is a special case that we use にじゅうぶ instead of にじゅっぷ?

for 1-100,000 部 are these correct:

いちぶん
にぶん
さんぶん
よんぶん
ごぶん
ろくぶん
ななぶん
はちぶん
きゅうぶん
じゅうぶん
ひゃくぶん
せんぶん
いちまんぶん



-- i've just read a short explanation on when to use いっせん/せん, to clarify, would 10,001,000 be いっせんまんいっせん

[duo797]

Originally Posted by pacerier

Is it because that 部 is a special case that we use にじゅうぶ instead of にじゅっぷ?

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure that counters that are already voiced (ぶ　vs ふ) don't have change pronunciation at all when reading. So 部 will always be read as ぶ and never as っぷ. This sound change does happen with counters that have unvoiced consonants like 分（ふん）(minutes)　匹（ひき）(small animals)
二十分（にじゅっぷん）
一匹（いっぴき）
etc.

[Sashimister]

Originally Posted by pacerier

ok cool, what software do you use to type japanese anyway?

Windows? I don't even know. You can type in Japanese on all the PC's sold in Japan, so I never even thought about it. Maybe someone else can answer this.

Is it because that 部 is a special case that we use にじゅうぶ instead of にじゅっぷ?

No, you're going too wild. It's very common to read the "20" part of "20 + counter" にじゅう. Number 20 is pronounced にじゅう, too.

for 1-100,000 部 are these correct:

いちぶん Why are you suddenly reading it ぶん? It's ぶ.
にぶん
さんぶん
よんぶん
ごぶん
ろくぶん
ななぶん
はちぶん
きゅうぶん
じゅうぶん
ひゃくぶん
せんぶん
いちまんぶん All correct if you delete all the ん's. (Nicer than saying "all wrong", ain't it?)

-- i've just read a short explanation on when to use いっせん/せん, to clarify, would 10,001,000 be いっせんまんいっせん

Correct. Nice example.

[KyleGoetz]

Originally Posted by Sashimister

Over 99% of the time, it's せん. When you really must emphasize the number, it's pronounced いっせん.

千 is the biggest numeral where this is still possible, right? Starting with 万, it always must be preceded by a number, right? 一万、一億, etc, right? Like 1200 is 千二百, but 12000 is 一万二千.