which is more common/natural

[Sashimister]

Originally Posted by pacerier

would シさんは卒業することができる by any way sound weird?

No, not at all.

also is it true that の can be used to change a verb into a gerund, if so what modifications must i make to the third sentence valid (3rd sentence: シさんは卒業するのができる)

You cannot say 卒業するのができる. You can say 卒業することができる.

The verb nominalizer の is used in the following ways.
食べるのが好きです。 I love eating.
勉強するのがきらいです。 I dislike studying.
さくぶんを書くのはむずかしい。 It's hard to write compos.

[pacerier]

thanks for the info ^^

anyway in 卒業するのができる (is there a kanji for できる?), is it true that the problem lies with のができる. in other words is it true that this is incorrect as well:
勉強するのができる


also can we use 止める to refer to "parking bicycles", likewise can we use 置く to refer to parking cars. in other words will all of these be acceptable:
あそこに自転車を置かなければなりません
あそこに自転車を止めなければなりません
あそこで車を置かなければなりません
あそこで車を止めなければなりません
if the red に is changed with a で will the 2 sentences above still be valid?



on a side note, do we usually write the なければなりません conjugation with kana or kanji

[KyleGoetz]

Originally Posted by pacerier

thanks for the info ^^

anyway in 卒業するのができる (is there a kanji for できる?), is it true that the problem lies with のができる. in other words is it true that this is incorrect as well:
勉強するのができる


also can we use 止める to refer to "parking bicycles", likewise can we use 置く to refer to parking cars. in other words will all of these be acceptable:
あそこに自転車を置かなければなりません
あそこに自転車を止めなければなりません
あそこで車を置かなければなりません
あそこで車を止めなければなりません
if the red に is changed with a で will the 2 sentences above still be valid?



on a side note, do we usually write the なければなりません conjugation with kana or kanji

The problem is the の. Vことができる is a set phrase. You cannot modify it.

Regarding なければならない, there are no kanji to use there. It's always kana. What kanji were you going to try and use? I'm curious.

[RickOShay]

Originally Posted by KyleGoetz

You've got the guideline really wrong.

Well, this isn't my guideline(るverb..ichidan/うverb..godan), I am just saying what was written in my first Japanese text book, and how my teacher (a native) explained it to me.

Originally Posted by KyleGoetz

For example, 止まる is a godan verb even though it ends in る.

This is quite useful, I have never noticed it before. But now that I think about it, it is true.　It would have been nice to have told this as a beginner.

Originally Posted by KyleGoetz

2. Does it end in /eru/ or /iru/? If no, it is godan. If yes, it's probably ichidan.

ahh but herein lies the confusion I suppose.

lovely words like 蘇る、翻る、覆る、切る、散る、練る、軋る、知る、蹴 る、減る、契る、照る。。

my feeling is there is enough that do not fit the form to make one unsure of oneself sometimes.

[KyleGoetz]

Originally Posted by RickOShay

Well, this isn't my guideline(るverb..ichidan/うverb..godan), I am just saying what was written in my first Japanese text book, and how my teacher (a native) explained it to me.




This is quite useful, I have never noticed it before. But now that I think about it, it is true.　It would have been nice to have told this as a beginner.



ahh but herein lies the confusion I suppose.

lovely words like 蘇る、翻る、覆る、切る、散る、練る、軋る、知る、蹴 る、減る、契る、照る。。

my feeling is there is enough that do not fit the form to make one unsure of oneself sometimes.

You listed very few verbs, relatively speaking. Beyond that, did you notice how each one, if you throw away the kanji part, only is る? This should be a hint to you. If you know how it's written, you can know this type of verb is (maybe always?) going to be godan. Besides, I don't care if you're unsure. If you're chatting with someone, there is no room for unsureness. You just conjugate it based on the probabilities and hope you're right. You can't stop the convo to look up whether it's ichidan or godan. Play the probabilities, man.

My rule is much more accurate than what you were taught. And for what it's worth, Yookoso! teaches what I'm saying.

[RickOShay]

Originally Posted by KyleGoetz

You listed very few verbs, relatively speaking. Beyond that, did you notice how each one, if you throw away the kanji part, only is る? This should be a hint to you. If you know how it's written, you can know this type of verb is (maybe always?) going to be godan. Besides, I don't care if you're unsure. If you're chatting with someone, there is no room for unsureness. You just conjugate it based on the probabilities and hope you're right. You can't stop the convo to look up whether it's ichidan or godan. Play the probabilities, man.

My rule is much more accurate than what you were taught. And for what it's worth, Yookoso! teaches what I'm saying.

honestly, this is not an issue for me anymore, and im just trying to point out that the difference between verbs like 寝る and 練る and 減る and 経る might be hard for a new learner to sift through.

[KyleGoetz]

Originally Posted by RickOShay

honestly, this is not an issue for me anymore, and im just trying to point out that the difference between verbs like 寝る and 練る and 減る and 経る might be hard for a new learner to sift through.

I agree with you.

[pacerier]

anyway is it common to use 食事をする to mean eat or is 食べる preferred? which of this 2 would be more commonly said:
A) レストランで食事をしました
B) レストランで食べた

[RickOShay]

I would probably say B if I happened to say that sentence. The first one just seems like too much effort for such mundane information.
But I know 食事 to be a fairly common word too. And I do use it as well...but this a question for a native.....

[Columbine]

Originally Posted by RickOShay

I would probably say B if I happened to say that sentence. The first one just seems like too much effort for such mundane information.
But I know 食事 to be a fairly common word too. And I do use it as well...but this a question for a native.....

I've never seen 食事 used with する to make a verb. It's always seen it as something like食事できました、 食事時or 食事代 or just 食事 by itself. I mean, i'm sure you CAN use 食事する, but it doesn't seem to be common.