which is more common/natural

[pacerier]

in casual speech, is かれら more often used then かれたち?

and is it true that besides けど we have けれども, けれど, けども. do they all mean the same thing, and which should i be using (or are all fine)


also does this 2 sentences mean the same thing:
ゴルフができますか
ゴルフをすることができますか

[MMM]

Originally Posted by pacerier

in casual speech, is かれら more often used then かれたち?

and is it true that besides けど we have けれども, けれど, けども. do they all mean the same thing, and which should i be using (or are all fine)


also does this 2 sentences mean the same thing:
ゴルフができますか
ゴルフをすることができますか

It depends who is saying it. As a new speaker I would stick with かれたち. かれら sounds a bit rough, and depending on who you are talking to may not be appropriate.

The longer it is, the more formal it is. けど should be fine for your needs now.

ゴルフができますか is fine. I have never heard someone say ゴルフをすることができますか.

[KyleGoetz]

Originally Posted by MMM

It depends who is saying it. As a new speaker I would stick with かれたち. かれら sounds a bit rough, and depending on who you are talking to may not be appropriate.

The longer it is, the more formal it is. けど should be fine for your needs now.

ゴルフができますか is fine. I have never heard someone say ゴルフをすることができますか.

I back up what MMM said. I have this strange feeling that teeeechnically you would say something like ピザの食べることができる instead of ピザを, although using を is perfectly acceptable. I always use を, but I just had this feeling like maybe I learned の or が is "more correct" seven years ago in my classes.

Can a native weigh in?

And to build upon the かれら／かれたち issue, 〜ら in general is pretty uniformly more rough than 〜たち as a "pluralizer."

You don't hear gangsters saying オマエたち!

[Nyororin]

No matter how I try to come up with a good situation, かれたち just sounds... weird.

I honestly cannot think of a normal situation using it. It isn`t wrong, but it carries a different feeling than かれら which I would consider "natural". Even in a more formal situation.

かれたち makes me think of referring to boyfriends...

[RickOShay]

Originally Posted by Nyororin

No matter how I try to come up with a good situation, かれたち just sounds... weird.

I honestly cannot think of a normal situation using it. It isn`t wrong, but it carries a different feeling than かれら which I would consider "natural". Even in a more formal situation.

かれたち makes me think of referring to boyfriends...

I agree. I don't think I have ever heard anybody say かれたち..

[Sashimister]

Originally Posted by Nyororin

No matter how I try to come up with a good situation, かれたち just sounds... weird.

I honestly cannot think of a normal situation using it. It isn`t wrong, but it carries a different feeling than かれら which I would consider "natural". Even in a more formal situation.

かれたち makes me think of referring to boyfriends...

I completely agree with this.

I don't think I've ever said かれたち in my life. I may have heard it said but you hear many things said if you live half a century.

かれら is the pronoun I would use if I had to use a pronoun. However,　I'd much rather act like a Japanese and use あの人たち or　～～さんたち.

In Japan, you will hear かれら most often in the English classes in junior high and high schools when they have to translate the word "they" into Japanese.

Originally Posted by KyleGoetz

I back up what MMM said. I have this strange feeling that teeeechnically you would say something like ピザの食べることができる instead of ピザを, although using を is perfectly acceptable. I always use を, but I just had this feeling like maybe I learned の or が is "more correct" seven years ago in my classes.

We don't say ピザの食べることができる in any situation. 　が is also incorrect. It's ピザを.

However, you can say in a relative clause:
ピザを食べることのできる店 　
The の here is preferred over が.


　　

[pacerier]

sry i cant catch up, does ピザを食べることのできる店 mean the can-eat-pizza store? and what would that actually mean

anyway about できる, can i use わたしはできません to mean something like i cant do this because im not allowed, or is わたしはできません only restricted to mean that i cant do this because im not capable of doing it.

[RickOShay]

Originally Posted by pacerier

sry i cant catch up, does ピザを食べることのできる店 mean the can-eat-pizza store? and what would that actually mean

anyway about できる, can i use わたしはできません to mean something like i cant do this because im not allowed, or is わたしはできません only restricted to mean that i cant do this because im not capable of doing it.

Generally I think できる／できない is used for things you are not capable of doing. For things you are not allowed to do 〜してはいけません is more commonly used.

and for your first question.. it translates best to "A shop where one can eat pizza." I believe.

[KyleGoetz]

Originally Posted by pacerier

sry i cant catch up, does ピザを食べることのできる店 mean the can-eat-pizza store? and what would that actually mean

が and の are interchangeable in a modifying clause. の sounds softer, and thus is often (always?) preferred as "nicer" Japanese.

For example, "the store I went to" can be either (if you actually use a pronoun) 私が行った店 or 私の行った店.

Similarly,
私の食べたピザ
私が食べたピザ
are both "the pizza I ate"

Also, thanks Sashimister for clearing up my confusion! Like I said, I would never use anything other than を there, but there was just something in the back of my mind telling me that I was taught it's OK but not the best (like how you can say ピザを食べたい even though ピザが食べたい is "textbook Japanese").

Glad to see I was wrong and using proper Japanese all along for that construction.

[pacerier]

thanks all for the insight! i'l try to use の instead of が in a modifying clause in the future