KyleGoetz's Thread of Questions

[KyleGoetz]

Originally Posted by RealJames

Hey Kyle,
Thanks for making this thread, it's just at the right learning level for me, I can't answer the questions you're asking but I find their answers helpful to me!!

Yeah, we're at that level where there aren't any systematic programs for learning I guess. These questions are more or less popping up as I get closer to 100% joyo kanji knowledge.

[KyleGoetz]

I've a new question about 並行して／た
I know 並行して as "to do something at the same time." But I realized 並行した also works. I'm curious as to whether there's a difference in usage.

Looking at samples in Eijiro, I see that
並行した生活を送る is a phrase (basically, "to lead two lives in parallel")

Would 並行して生活を送る be correct also? If not, why? If so, is there a difference in nuance?

Because I know things like 並行して実行しているプロセス are correct usages as well, but this time it's して instead of した.

And that's not to mention the option of dropping する altogether and saying something like 並行イベント or using の and saying 並行のイベント, but those I have less a problem with dealing with since I know sometimes you can drop the linking の and basically it just makes the phrase sound slightly more "official" or something more formal (??) in tone.

My best guess is that 並行して would be used when you're talking about two things happening at the same time, but 並行した would be used when you're specifically talking about one of the things that is happening.

So in the first example, you're talking about a second 生活 that is being lived, so 並行した is correct. However, were you saying that a person has two lives, 並行して would be correct.

So in that case, "this is the second process, which we run simultaneously" might be これは並行したプロセス..., but "we run two processes simultaneously" would be 並行してプロセス...

But even as I type that, I think that's a weird, super-nitpicky attempt at drawing a distinction that actually doesn't exist.

[masaegu]

Not sure what your real question is above.

Keeping two separate families might be an unrealistic example but if you have wife and kids both in Tokyo and Dallas, you can say　both:

東京とダラスで並行して生活を送る and

ふたつの街で並行した生活を送る

My best guess is that 並行して would be used when you're talking about two things happening at the same time, but 並行した would be used when you're specifically talking about one of the things that is happening.

Not really. As you can see above, both して and したcan be used to refer to both of the two items in question.

[KyleGoetz]

Originally Posted by masaegu

Not sure what your real question is above.

Keeping two separate families might be an unrealistic example but if you have wife and kids both in Tokyo and Dallas, you can say　both:

東京とダラスで並行して生活を送る and

ふたつの街で並行した生活を送る



Not really. As you can see above, both して and したcan be used to refer to both of the two items in question.

My question was, in essence, is there a difference between 並行して and した when used right before a noun it modifies.

[masaegu]

Originally Posted by KyleGoetz

My question was, in essence, is there a difference between 並行して and した when used right before a noun it modifies.

The only difference I can think of is that you don't have an "independent" phrase in　「並行して + noun」 while you do in 「並行した + noun」 because 「並行した」 can function as an adjective.

In the former, you would still need to add a verb after the noun in order to form a phrase.
並行して生活をする

並行した生活, however, is an independent noun phrase by itself.

(I feel like I may be going further away from answering your question.)

[KyleGoetz]

I think that answers my question. I was just wondering if there was a different usage. It seems they're practically interchangeable.

[KyleGoetz]

New question!

I'm working through a chapter of どんな時どう使う日本語表現文型５００, and I'm on the chapter called 時点・場面. It goes over a lot of different structures that deal with this topic, and the first one in the chapter already has me confused.

The book says:

〜折（に）・〜折の【〜機会に】
1. このことは今度お目にかかった折に詳しくお話しいたし ます。
2. 先月北海道に行った折、偶然昔の友達に会った。
3. 何かの折にわたしのことを思い出したら手紙をください ね。
4. 寒さ厳しい折から、くれぐれもお体を大切にしてくださ い。

「あるいい機会に」という意味であるから、後の文には マイナスのことがらはあまり来ない。

連体修飾型（否定形は少ない）＋折（に）

I understand that this book is coming right out and saying that it means "when there is a good opportunity," but I'm having difficulty putting that with the example sentences 1–4.

Take #4 for example. How can there be a good opportunity for 寒さ厳しい? Here, it just seems that 折に means "when" without any implication about a "good opportunity." But if this is the case, it seems to make the entire explanation in the book pretty wrong.

Can someone explain this to me?

For what it's worth, just guessing at the meaning of the sentences without understanding 折, I think they say this:
1. When you look at this thing next time, we will talk in detail.
2. When I went to Hokkaido last month, I bumped into an old friend.
3. At some point, if you think of me, write me a letter, OK?
4. When the cold is brutal, please take care of your body [yourself].

But I don't see what function 折 is serving here.

Thank you in advance!

[Supperman]

1. このことは今度お目にかかった折に詳しくお話しいたし ます。
2. 先月北海道に行った折、偶然昔の友達に会った。
3. 何かの折にわたしのことを思い出したら手紙をください ね。
4. 寒さ厳しい折(である）から、くれぐれもお体を大切に� �てくださ い。

折
≒時
≒time,
when,
the time when,
occasion,
incidence

「あるいい機会に」という意味で使われることが多いから、後の文には マイナスのことがらはあまり来ない。
////////////////////////////////////////
My literal translations;

1. I will make a further explanation about this matter, when I meet you in person next time. (when・・・next time = 折）

2. I met one of my old friend by chance, when I went to Hokkaido last month.

3. Please send me mail in such an occasion when you remind of me.

4.Please take good care of yourself, as it is the time/season when the climate is awfully cold.

/////////
My translations are just like yours.

1. When you look at this thing next time, we will talk in detail.
2. When I went to Hokkaido last month, I bumped into an old friend.
3. At some point, if you think of me, write me a letter, OK?
4. When the cold is brutal, please take care of your body [yourself].

The purple bold words in your sentences are equivalent to "折".

[masaegu]

Originally Posted by KyleGoetz

Take #4 for example. How can there be a good opportunity for 寒さ厳しい? Here, it just seems that 折に means "when" without any implication about a "good opportunity." But if this is the case, it seems to make the entire explanation in the book pretty wrong.

Can someone explain this to me?

You appear to be misunderstood there. It is not saying that the cold season itself is a good time for doing something. It is implying that it's a good time for the speaker to address the issue of maintaining good health.

[masaegu]

Originally Posted by Supperman

4. When the cold is brutal, please take care of your body [yourself].

That doesn't seem to carry the nuance of the original sentence in the least bit since the addressee is already aware that it's cold at that point.

More like "Let me take this particular point in the cold season as the opportunity to urge you pay attention to your health."