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transitive/intransitive help please -
04-20-2010, 01:49 PM
Hey,
I'm really struggling to get my head around this haha. Are these right? 窓が割れています。 The window was broken and still is. 窓が割れていました。 The window was broken, but is fixed now. まどが割れてあります。 The window has been broken (for a reason). 窓が割れてありました The window was broken (for a reason). Any help appreciated  Thanks x 
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04-20-2010, 02:43 PM
Are these right?
窓が割れています。 Correct. The window was broken and still is. 窓が割れていました。 The window was broken, but is fixed now. Not really. The Japanese sentence doesn't say it's fixed now. It just says it was broken. まどが割れてあります。 Incorrect. Makes close to no sense to the native ear, believe it or not. The window has been broken (for a reason). To say what your English says, you can say 窓が割られています. This is the transitive in its passive voice form. 窓が割れてありました Incorrect. The window was broken (for a reason). To say what's said in the English, say 窓が割られていました. Transitive, passive voice and past tense.
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04-20-2010, 06:00 PM
Quote:
Transitiveいる Transitiveある Intransitiveいる For "open-ness" you have two verbs: 開く (intransitive) and 開ける (transitive). I.e., 窓を開ける vs. 窓が開く. Applying them: ○窓を開けている I am opening the window. ○窓が開けてある The window has been opened. ○窓が開いている The window is open. The difference between this and the previous is that the previous has an implied actor, that the window's openness was caused by an unspoken actor. ×窓が開（あ）いてある this is improper grammar Contrast 開（あ）いてある with 開（ひら）いてある. The former is improper grammar (intransitiveある is incorrect), but the latter (since 開（ひら）く is a transitive verb) is perfectly fine. The point of the difference between Intransitiveいる and Transitiveある is that the former is just expressing the state of being, while the latter is putting some implied change in state into the sentence, or emphasizing that some unspoken actor caused the state of being. In this example, The window is open (merely a state of being) vs. The window has been opened (the window is open + emphasis that some unspoken actor caused the state of being) --- In summary, you have transitive and intransitive verbs. ている can go with both, and the intransitiveている is what we can call having a "resultative aspect" (it talks about a result). Transitiveている has a "progressive aspect" as opposed to a resultative aspect (the focus is on the progression of the action by an actor). てある only goes with the transitive, and it also has a resultative aspect (it makes the transitive focus on the result rather than the process). 窓が開けてある The window has been opened. OR, more explicitly: The window has been made to be open. さいふが落としてある The wallet has been dropped. / The wallet has been made to drop. 木が倒してある The tree has fallen. / The tree has been made to fall.
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04-20-2010, 06:14 PM
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04-20-2010, 07:02 PM
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I really don't use てある very often. I prefer to use just the intransitiveている and passive forms. Glad that my instinctive avoidance of てある helps me avoid looking more like a fool than I already do!
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04-20-2010, 07:21 PM
Just a suggestion. You are mixing two parts of grammar and that is why you might have a little bit of confusion. Look on your textbook this 2 separate topics and tackle them separatly:
transitive/intransitive verbs. continuative/moment action verbs with the progressive ている form. They should be in 2 clearly separated parts of the book. The different meanings with the ている form has really not much to do with how the transitive/intransitive verbs work. usually they are dealt with in different section of the book. てある itself will be covered in another area of your textbook for sure since it is a form that can take the place of the passive form. Try to learn them separately, that will help you alot. Trust me, lol coz we all students go through the same confusion when tackling these things LOL. 暗闇の中 歩くしかねぇ everything’s gonna be okay 恐れることねぇ 辛い時こそ胸を張れ
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