Help on how to say something simple :)

[KyleGoetz]

Originally Posted by Espair

I always forget the small tsu >,<. In 今はあの方の結婚式でしょう。i've never used あの方の before, what does it mean?

あの方（かた） is a polite way of saying "that person."

[Espair]

Oh, so its pronounced がた　I looked it up and it said 'honorific pluralizing suffix' So it would be refering to both of the people getting married instead of just the one person?

[edit] whoops.

Umm, one last question (I have so many!), is there a 'best' generic kanji to use for あなた？ the dictionary gives me a few different ones ie. 貴方, 貴女, 貴男, judging by the last character the first would probably be the most generic?

edit - ohh あのかた is singular.

That makes sense how calling someone 'you' rather than their name can be rude, all this is assuming that the person being talked about is not present.

[Columbine]

Originally Posted by Espair

Oh, so its pronounced がた　I looked it up and it said 'honorific pluralizing suffix' So it would be refering to both of the people getting married instead of just the one person?

I ~think~ so, if it's あなた方. But if it's just two or three people, sometimes you add on ３人、二人 just to clarify. I'm not 100% certain on the usage of 方 in this instance.

Originally Posted by Espair

Umm, one last question (I have so many!), is there a 'best' generic kanji to use for あなた？ the dictionary gives me a few different ones ie. 貴方, 貴女, 貴男, judging by the last character the first would probably be the most generic?

貴方 is the most common kanji combination, i think, but it's much more common to see it in hiragana, (with any 方 in kanji).

Originally Posted by Espair

That makes sense how calling someone 'you' rather than their name can be rude, all this is assuming that the person being talked about is not present.

or at least not immediately present. I could point to a lady across the room and ask of my friend something like 「あの方は誰ですか」.

[KyleGoetz]

Originally Posted by Espair

Oh, so its pronounced がた　I looked it up and it said 'honorific pluralizing suffix' So it would be refering to both of the people getting married instead of just the one person?

No. か、か、か、かた. Not がた.

[KyleGoetz]

Originally Posted by Espair

Umm, one last question (I have so many!), is there a 'best' generic kanji to use for あなた？ the dictionary gives me a few different ones ie. 貴方, 貴女, 貴男, judging by the last character the first would probably be the most generic?

Also, two more things:
1. Don't use a kanji for あなた
2. Don't use あなた. You're almost guaranteed at this point in your learning not to be in a situation where it's normal, let alone normal to use あなた方.

What are you trying to say right now that you think requires あなた?

[manganimefan227]

Originally Posted by Columbine

方 is a polite (or at least, less direct) substitute for 人 when you're talking about people you either don't know, or don't know very well. You can add it onto the end of あなた to make the 'you' less direct as well.




From what I understand of being rude in Japanese (and how to avoid!) it seems to come of being either too direct, like saying あんた (あなた) instead of someone's name, or being inappropriately polite. Which is why words like おまえ are often used as swears or rude words, but there are actually ways you can use them that are quite polite and technically have an origin in polite language.

So THAT'S what's so wrong about あなた! OK, I'm not sure what you mean by "direct" though . . .Is it just more respectful to say something like

としろさんはなんさいですか instead of using あなた?

[KyleGoetz]

Originally Posted by manganimefan227

So THAT'S what's so wrong about あなた! OK, I'm not sure what you mean by "direct" though . . .Is it just more respectful to say something like

としろさんはなんさいですか instead of using あなた?

Yes, it is immeasurably better to use a person's name.

And あなた sounds too familiar/direct/close/whatever.

It's like how you wouldn't say "Hey, you" to the President of the USA.

[Espair]

Originally Posted by KyleGoetz

Also, two more things:
1. Don't use a kanji for あなた
2. Don't use あなた. You're almost guaranteed at this point in your learning not to be in a situation where it's normal, let alone normal to use あなた方.

What are you trying to say right now that you think requires あなた?

Well, in all my Japanese books, they are mostly based on formal spoken Japanese, I think its important to learn the less formal/casual half as well. I didnt know that あなた was so casual, on the verge of being rude like saying "おまえ”？

As for not using the kanji for it, is that because its just not a word normally spelled in kanji in Japan? My kanji is very weak and I learned that the best way to learn it is by using it, so I try to every opportunity I get.

It would seem rather strange to use あなた with 方, since one is polite and the other informal. Maybe if you dont know someones name you would use it to ask? あなた方は名前ですか？

edit- oh Columbine had my question answered. Ty guys you're all really helpful

[KyleGoetz]

Originally Posted by Espair

Well, in all my Japanese books, they are mostly based on formal spoken Japanese, I think its important to learn the less formal/casual half as well. I didnt know that あなた was so casual, on the verge of being rude like saying "おまえ”？

As for not using the kanji for it, is that because its just not a word normally spelled in kanji in Japan? My kanji is very weak and I learned that the best way to learn it is by using it, so I try to every opportunity I get.

It would seem rather strange to use あなた with 方, since one is polite and the other informal. Maybe if you dont know someones name you would use it to ask? あなた方は名前ですか？

edit- oh Columbine had my question answered. Ty guys you're all really helpful

Here are a number of usages of あなた方: “あなた方”の検索結果（43 件）：英辞郎 on the Web：スペースアルク

And if you don't know someone's name, you would just say お名前はなんですか。 You rarely ever use a first- or second-person pronoun in Japanese.

[Columbine]

Originally Posted by manganimefan227

So THAT'S what's so wrong about あなた! OK, I'm not sure what you mean by "direct" though . . .Is it just more respectful to say something like

としろさんはなんさいですか instead of using あなた?

Compare; "Hey, you dropped this." with "Excuse me, but I think you may have dropped something,"

One is direct; it's assertive and fingers a person explicitly as the cause of an action. "You dropped". The other is passive, indirect and gives lea-way for excuse. "I think you may have". And it's automatically more polite.

Or; "I hate Mr. Yamada." with "I wouldn't really say Mr. Yamada is my favourite person." The second one skirts the issue.

With friends and family, it's ok to be that direct, but you wouldn't really say stuff like that to your boss, or people you don't know, right? It's the same in Japanese.

And as everyone's already said, always use a name if you can.