あなたはこの本をもう読みましたか

[steven]

あなたはこの本をもう読みましたか。

How would you translate this into English?

Here are some that I can come up with:

Have you read this book yet?
Have you already read this book?
Have you read this book already?
Did you read this book yet?
Did you already read this book?
Did you read this book already?

I can also imagine replacing "this" with "the".

I'm interested in knowing if anyone feels that any of those would be better or worse than the others and why. I'm also interested in hearing your own interpretations. Sorry, there is no context for this one.

In my opinion this is an extremely trivial question, so I apologize for that. If I were to split hairs, I guess I would say that "did you" is simple past and "have you" is present perfect. I don't see any logic or practical application in saying "did" is better than "have" or "have" is better than "did"... especially since this one comes with no context. Am I missing something?

[MMM]

All of you answers are potentially correct. Though I would probably drop the あなたは.

This is more of an English question than a Japanese question.

[steven]

Originally Posted by MMM

All of you answers are potentially correct. Though I would probably drop the あなたは.

This is more of an English question than a Japanese question.

I appreciate your answer MMM-- so I'm not crazy (at least in this instance), right? I should just come out and say what this is about-- this is from a practice test (which was written by Japanese people for Japanese people) and I'm being told that "did you..." is wrong. I'm also being told that "the" is wrong, because "this" is correct. I guess if you want to get into a Japanese high school (in my general area at least) it is imperitive that you know this kind of thing.

I thought about putting this in the English help... but I'm not sure. I kind of want to hear from Japanese speakers of English who might have some insight as to why it would be dangerous (for lack of a better word) to learn "did you" instead of "have you"-- like would learning/using "did you" induce certain errors or something like that. Not that I've noticed any teachers in my working life who take the time to think about "induced errors". Besides, as a naive English speaker myself, I too find that all of my examples would be correct. If nothing else, "did you" sounds better to me in most instances that I can come up with.

[KyleGoetz]

Originally Posted by steven

I appreciate your answer MMM-- so I'm not crazy (at least in this instance), right? I should just come out and say what this is about-- this is from a practice test (which was written by Japanese people for Japanese people) and I'm being told that "did you..." is wrong. I'm also being told that "the" is wrong, because "this" is correct. I guess if you want to get into a Japanese high school (in my general area at least) it is imperitive that you know this kind of thing.

I thought about putting this in the English help... but I'm not sure. I kind of want to hear from Japanese speakers of English who might have some insight as to why it would be dangerous (for lack of a better word) to learn "did you" instead of "have you"-- like would learning/using "did you" induce certain errors or something like that. Not that I've noticed any teachers in my working life who take the time to think about "induced errors". Besides, as a naive English speaker myself, I too find that all of my examples would be correct. If nothing else, "did you" sounds better to me in most instances that I can come up with.

この is "this," so I'd say it's better than "the."

For saying "did you already" is incorrect, your teacher should be fired.

But yeah, just "did you read the book" would be an inaccurate translation. "Did you read the book" and "Did you already read the book" are different in meaning, and the same situation could have one be a Y and one be a N.

A: I went to the Bahamas and took my copy of Some Prefer Nettles. *thinking: I read the book after returning to the States*
B: Did you read the book?
A: No.

versus

A: I went to the Bahamas and took my copy of Some Prefer Nettles. *thinking: I read the book after returning to the States*
B: Did you read the book already? ("have you read the book yet" would technically be a more natural English phrase, but you get the picture)
A: Yes.

[MMM]

Originally Posted by steven

I appreciate your answer MMM-- so I'm not crazy (at least in this instance), right? I should just come out and say what this is about-- this is from a practice test (which was written by Japanese people for Japanese people) and I'm being told that "did you..." is wrong. I'm also being told that "the" is wrong, because "this" is correct. I guess if you want to get into a Japanese high school (in my general area at least) it is imperitive that you know this kind of thing.

I thought about putting this in the English help... but I'm not sure. I kind of want to hear from Japanese speakers of English who might have some insight as to why it would be dangerous (for lack of a better word) to learn "did you" instead of "have you"-- like would learning/using "did you" induce certain errors or something like that. Not that I've noticed any teachers in my working life who take the time to think about "induced errors". Besides, as a naive English speaker myself, I too find that all of my examples would be correct. If nothing else, "did you" sounds better to me in most instances that I can come up with.

It really depends on the context.

"This" makes sense because there is この, so the book is probably in the speaker's hands.

"Have you" sounds more correct, like "Have you read this book?"

However, the もう is a little funny in English. To me it sounds like there is an expectation the book would have been read with the もう so "Have you already read this book?" or "Did you already read this book?" could be correct.

The "Have you" sounds like the listener might be a fan of the author so the speaker expects she may have already read it.

The "Did you" sounds like it may be a homework assignment, so the speaker expects she may have already read it.

Isn't English fun?

[steven]

As far as the この="this" goes, I know exactly where you guys are coming from, but I personally have experienced times when "kono" could be said as "the".

For example, to show you a phrase I was all to familiar with in high school-

"Did you even read the book yet?"-- the teachers would often be holding "the" book in their hands.

Or a simpler (and lighter) version of that : "did you read the book yet?"

Although I don't think I'd find myself using この in that situation, I could see how one could.

As far as dropping the "already" or "yet" from it, I too think that it would make it technically innacurate... but I feel like there could be times during interpreting in which it would be appropriate to drop a "yet/already" to get rid of what could be sensed as some kind of negative nuance. I for one don't think my kind of thinking here has any place whilst taking a test though.

MMM-- I can appreciate those nuances a lot. I think I have a similar feeling about "have you" implying like a higher sense of attachment from the "asker" here. Personally I don't see why "have you" would be superior than "did you" as far as "correctness" goes. Is there any reason why you feel that? I agree with the notion that this is all about context. Even still though, I can't think of many situations that would require one or the other. It could be my over exposure to Japanese English, but I somehow have the feeling that "have you" falls under the "polite" category where as "did you" would be more neutral.

And Kyle-- the scary thing about this is that it might not be the teacher I talked to. According to them, on the entrance exam (or one of the standardized tests) "did you" is incorrect while "have you" is correct. Supposedly they have ALTs checking those kinds of things... regardless of that, it boggles my mind where and how they decide to split hairs over grammar here and where they simply don't give an S. It's like they treat the language like math (x=y) where it really shouldn't be and then they are liberal in areas where it really is a "this or that" type of situation. It's very frustrating to deal with.

I appreciate you guys taking the time to give me a little bit of my English-language confidence back . I fear for the day when all my native intuition is replaced with this terrible make-believe English that I am confronted with every day of my life.