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01-10-2011, 10:03 AM
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01-10-2011, 11:33 AM
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You have already asked the same question regarding another pair of verbs but you will need to know that the only time when two verbs are completely interchageable is when you have a Yamato-kotoba verb and its counterpart Chinese loan word. Otherwise, don't even seek interchangeability. 閉める and 閉じる are both originally Japanese words; therefore, there will be no complete interchangeability. The two verbs even have different antonyms. 開ける ＜＞ 閉める 開く ＜＞ 閉じる In other words, you can only 閉める the things you can 開ける and you can only 閉じる the things you can 開く. Once again, don't let the translated English words "open" and "close" fool you. The sooner you break the habit, the faster and more properly you will learn Japanese. ドアを閉める ドアを閉じる Both OK 窓を閉める 窓を閉じる Both OK 封筒を閉める straining 封筒を閉じる Better 銀行の口座を閉める barely OK 銀行の口座を閉じる Better and more natural ______ Other examples: One can only say 本を閉じる 目を閉じる 幕を閉じる 心を閉じる ネクタイを閉める 蛇口を閉める
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01-10-2011, 02:43 PM
Thanks duo797 san and masaegu san. I should have said similiar instead of interchangeable.
By the way, I don't quite understand "ネクタイを閉める" as it sounds like "close the tie" to me. Please do correct me if I am wrong. I have a few more questions which I need help on as I couldn't find the examples I need for my better understanding of the usage. 1. お茶をたてる (make green tea) - I would like to know if I can also say "お茶をいれる" just like "コーヒーをいれる" 2. 煮る (cook, boil) - Is the usage something like "to boil water", "to cook rice/fish, etc. 3. 付ける as "to mark" - Is possible to omit 印 from the following sentences? 目印を付ける mark the spot 書類の重要なポイントに印を付ける mark highlights of a document 4. 出る as "participate, attend" - I would like to know when I say "サッカの試合に出る/参加する" how does someone know if I am referring to "I will attend (to watch) the soccer match" or "I will participate (be playing) in the soccer match? 5. 組み立てる (assemble) - I find that this verb is slightly similiar with "まとめる", or at least it sounds similiar. But again, I could be wrong. 6. 載せる (place on, load onto) - This is the verb that confused me the most for today. When I first looked at it, the first thing that came to my mind is that if it means "To place something on the table" and "To load something onto the truck"? 失敗をしない人間はいない。 いるのは失敗から立ち直れない奴と 立ち直れる奴だ。
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01-10-2011, 03:00 PM
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It means "to wear the tie (properly and tightly)". When you want to relax a little at work, you may loosen your tie around your neck a little, and then the reception desk calls you saying you have a visitor. You need to tighten your tie back to see him/her. This action is called ネクタイを閉める（ＯＲ 締める）.
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01-10-2011, 03:35 PM
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たてる = the thick and bitter powdered green tea used at the tea ceremony 入れる = regular leaf tea used on a daily basis Quote:
ご飯を炊（た）く お湯を沸（わ）かす The only thing you can 煮る are soup dishes and stews. Quote:
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It can only mean "will play". Quote:
組み立てる = to assemble, to build まとめる = to collect, to gather together in one place Quote:
The third meaning is to "to publish an article or to run an ad in a printed medium".
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01-11-2011, 12:30 AM
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Thanks for reminding me this as I had learnt this before in class but I actually forgotten it (sighs). The same can be say for wearing a belt, if I remember correctly. As for 出る and 参加する, do you mind elaborate a little more for my understanding? From what I know, it can be use for participating and attend, but I am still confuse about how are people going to distinguish if I am telling them if I will be participating or that I will just be attending some places. Some examples will be helpful on this one. 失敗をしない人間はいない。 いるのは失敗から立ち直れない奴と 立ち直れる奴だ。
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01-11-2011, 03:13 AM
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01-11-2011, 03:39 AM
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This is said by or about a player, not a spectator. No exceptions here. A spectator will say: サッカーの試合に行く サッカーの試合を見に行く Note 出る is used much more often than 参加する. In fact, you will confuse the listener if you used 参加する because nearly no one uses it in this context. If you want to use a Chinese loan word, use 出場する. You know all about the "word classes" between originally Japanese words and their Chinese loan word counterparts, don't you? コンサートに出る = performer コンサートに行く = audience Nearly no one would say コンサートに参加する, but if someone did, the meaning would be highly ambiguous as to performer vs. audience. That's why nearly no one would say it. 会議に出る/参加する = attend the meeting Here, both are good because there is only one thing you can do with a meeting. Attend or not attend. This is different from a soccer match where there clearly are two sides to it (play or watch). You are trying hard to find simple rules regarding word usage but it isn't always that simple. This isn't limited to Japanese. The other language always looks more complicated than your own.
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