ほど question

[masaegu]

Originally Posted by SHAD0W

Sorry man, I need to explain myself better. Example.. erm..

ロックに聞くほど頭が痛い

Is に　The wrong particle in this case？　　Is there a more natural way to say this?

You love using に, eh? But you cannot say ロックに聞く unless this ロック is a person.

Let's ask Rock! He knows everything. ＝　ロックに聞こう！ あいつなら何でも知っている。

[chryuop]

Originally Posted by SHAD0W

Sorry man, I need to explain myself better. Example.. erm..

ロックに聞くほど頭が痛い

Is に　The wrong particle in this case？　　Is there a more natural way to say this?

I think the phrase you want to say is expressed with another type of conjunction:
ロックを聴くあまり頭が痛い
But still no に goes there. You listen to rock in English uses "to", but in Japanese is a direct object so uses を.

[SHAD0W]

Originally Posted by masaegu

You love using に, eh? But you cannot say ロックに聞く unless this ロック is a person.

Let's ask Rock! He knows everything. ＝　ロックに聞こう！ あいつなら何でも知っている。

Haha!

So in my example, を　is the right particle? Thanks for helping me understand

[chryuop]

Originally Posted by KyleGoetz

2. Regarding を->は It's sort of an emphasis or implication-type thing. It's not like it's wrong to say を instead, but it very slightly changes the feel of the sentence. I personally can't claim to fully feel the change. I don't know if the change is so extremely slight that you don't feel a change really, or if I just haven't become attuned to it. I do notice the change, but I am only academically aware of: "OK, this implies a slight bit of contrast and/or shift in meaning that を would not, but doesn't change the meaning of the sentence so much that I now no longer understand it."

I still don't feel the difference many times.
But when I can I like to use は because it makes my life easy for the following parts. You set that as topic and then you can introduce new subject without having to mention the topic again and again...

[chryuop]

I changed the title and I will use this thread for my questions...trying to take less space possible

Today I got a question about 方がいい form. I had always known it uses the past informal tense when it is positive and present informal tense when negative. Now I happened to see it used differently...example:

Ａ：「ＸＸＸ」という言葉の意味は何ですか。
Ｂ1：日本語が話せません。私に聞かない方がいいです� �
Ｂ2：すみません、分かりません。Masaeguさんに聞いた方� ��いいです。
Ｂ3：すみません、分かりません。Masaeguさんに聞く方が� ��いです。

Now, while B1 says "you shouldn't ask me" and B2 means "you should ask Masaeguさん", I am not sure about the B3. The textbook where I met it translate the B3 as "we should ask Masaeguさん", but I am not sure that's the real difference.

[masaegu]

Originally Posted by chryuop

I changed the title and I will use this thread for my questions...trying to take less space possible

Today I got a question about 方がいい form. I had always known it uses the past informal tense when it is positive and present informal tense when negative. Now I happened to see it used differently...example:

Ａ：「ＸＸＸ」という言葉の意味は何ですか。
Ｂ1：日本語が話せません。私に聞かない方がいいです� �
Ｂ2：すみません、分かりません。Masaeguさんに聞いた方� ��いいです。
Ｂ3：すみません、分かりません。Masaeguさんに聞く方が� ��いです。

Now, while B1 says "you shouldn't ask me" and B2 means "you should ask Masaeguさん", I am not sure about the B3. The textbook where I met it translate the B3 as "we should ask Masaeguさん", but I am not sure that's the real difference.

I would say that most native speakers used the two forms differently.

～～した方がいい is much more frequently used.　You are giving advice regarding specific choices of action by saying "Doing A would be better than doing B." You are merely stating an opinion even if you are certain of what you are saying.

～～する方がいい is used to state facts, not opinions. "A will cost more than B; therefore do B.", "It takes more time to do A than B, so do B.", etc.

If you ever wonder which one to use, by all means use ～～した方がいい. It does no damage to make it an opinion in the first place in case you are proven wrong later on.

[chryuop]

Let me say immediately that I am a "half" Japanese language student. I am interested in reading and writing, but not much in speaking it or listening to it (I am just aware I will never use it LOL). I said this to show that I am not 100% used to listening to Japanese speaking.

I was listening to my Porno Graffiti's CD and one of the songs starts with ある時代、ある場所. Now, even a poorly trained ear like mine recognized those words, but more for the meaning than the sound. For musical reasons the singer actually said あのじだい、あのばしょう. I had no doubt about the meaning, but it made have a doubt.
When you have words with the longer sound (just like 芭蕉) you native actually just make the sound longer or you say the words with some small different intonations? The way I was seeing it till now (basically the way I read them) was 場所 with a kinda sudden abrupt stop of the sound at the end of the word, and 芭蕉 with a gentle fading longer sound.
But that song made me realize that my different way of reading those 2 words is so thin that it is easy to slip from word to the other. So I started wondering if there is some other intonation's difference.

[masaegu]

Originally Posted by chryuop

Let me say immediately that I am a "half" Japanese language student. I am interested in reading and writing, but not much in speaking it or listening to it (I am just aware I will never use it LOL). I said this to show that I am not 100% used to listening to Japanese speaking.

I was listening to my Porno Graffiti's CD and one of the songs starts with ある時代、ある場所. Now, even a poorly trained ear like mine recognized those words, but more for the meaning than the sound. For musical reasons the singer actually said あのじだい、あのばしょう. I had no doubt about the meaning, but it made have a doubt.
When you have words with the longer sound (just like 芭蕉) you native actually just make the sound longer or you say the words with some small different intonations? The way I was seeing it till now (basically the way I read them) was 場所 with a kinda sudden abrupt stop of the sound at the end of the word, and 芭蕉 with a gentle fading longer sound.
But that song made me realize that my different way of reading those 2 words is so thin that it is easy to slip from word to the other. So I started wondering if there is some other intonation's difference.

If I am reading your post correctly, you are comparing two words with different sounds in them.

場所　＝　ばしょ

芭蕉　＝　ばしょう

しょう is pronounced much longer than しょ, technically twice as long.

[chryuop]

Yes I was using those 2 words as example because that was the first 2 words I could think about.

I was wondering if there was some other difference like intonation. Now that I know the only difference is the length of the sound I will have to pay more attention when I read it. I bet when we students come to Japan, we confuse you a lot with the way we mix those words up hee hee.

Thank you for the answer.

[masaegu]

Originally Posted by chryuop

Yes I was using those 2 words as example because that was the first 2 words I could think about.

I was wondering if there was some other difference like intonation. Now that I know the only difference is the length of the sound I will have to pay more attention when I read it. I bet when we students come to Japan, we confuse you a lot with the way we mix those words up hee hee.

Thank you for the answer.

With 場所　and 芭蕉, there is no difference in the intonation. By "intonation", I am referring to the pitch accent. In Standard Japanese, they are both Do-Mi, with the Mi elongated in 芭蕉.

However, that just happened by accident. Consider the following pair of words.

琴（こと） = Mi-Do
The instrument

孤島（ことう） = Do-Mi (with the Mi elongated)
"isolated island"

So, it is not very simple.