What's the point to kanji stroke order?

[Masahiro42]

so as I've been learning kanji, I've noticed that they all have stroke orders. I also notice that I tend to not follow them. I've figured that the largest point to these would be calligraphy, but I've heard from friends that my teachers in coming years will be more concerned with stroke orders and I've had one friend tell me that stroke order helped him memorize the kanji. Most of the stroke orders seem counter-intuitive to me though and can take me longer to write, so I'm wondering if anyone could tell me what the point to them is? I would ask my teacher but it didn't occur to me to ask until just now as I'm studying for finals

[ryuurui]

Calligraphy is one reason and the pen handwriting is another. Daily handwritig is done mainly in semicursive and cursive styles, if the stroke order is not set, or mistaken, it would be impossible to read the text which is already rather complex (especially in 草書 - cursive style). Aesthetical values are another issue. Kanji written incorrectly look like decrepit creatures from X Files. Lastly, learning kanji and radicals would be the third reason. So, if you are serious about learning and understanding the Chinese characters, you must learn the stroke order, which is not that difficult.

I wrote you some examples:

1. Kanji 栽, meaning plant (same as in bonsai - 盆栽) Pay attention to the stroke order in the left hand side, and then the change of it in the right hand side (stroke order change is permitted in cursive script, but also there are strict rules to it). Without knowing the proper stroke order you would not be able to write it, or even read it.

2. Kanji 心 meaning heart. You have shown here not only the stroke order importance but the overal balance issue as well. Both need to be taken into consideration while learning how to write by hand, be it a brush or a pen.

[Masahiro42]

面白いです。

I wasn't even aware of cursive style. I think I'll devote some of my studies over the summer to learning stroke order then.

[ryuurui]

This site might be a good reference in case you do not have a dictionary that explains the stroke order:

漢字の正しい書き順(筆順) - 「書」の書き方

Also, please remember that stroke order may differ in standard script (similar to what's being used as basic PC font) and cursive scripts. So, mastering the standard script stroke order is the first step.

Also, some basic information is to be found here:

Stroke order - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[KyleGoetz]

Originally Posted by Masahiro42

面白いです。

I wasn't even aware of cursive style. I think I'll devote some of my studies over the summer to learning stroke order then.

You don't need to use kanji all the time. Using kanji in おもしろい is considered poor writing.

[ryuurui]

This is true, and it is quite common among those who have just begun to study kanji (or anything else), but in case of learning Chinese characters repeating is learning, so i guess it does not hurt to overdo it.

[ColinHowell]

Originally Posted by KyleGoetz

You don't need to use kanji all the time. Using kanji in おもしろい is considered poor writing.

I'm completely ignorant of the proper way to write this word, but I do find it curious (and, I suppose, potentially confusing) that its WWWJDIC entry shows it in kanji like any other word, with no hint that it is a word usually written in kana (i.e., the entry has no "uk" code).

[masaegu]

If you go to school in Japan, which I naturally did (kindergarten thru university), you do not even learn to write おもしろい using kanji. Most teachers would correct you if you learned to write it as 面白い someplace else as in manga or magazines and used it in school. There are many words like this.

Here's a website regardng this phenomenon by a major dictionary publisher.
http://dictionary.sanseido-publ.co.j.../subPage3.html

[KyleGoetz]

Originally Posted by ColinHowell

I'm completely ignorant of the proper way to write this word, but I do find it curious (and, I suppose, potentially confusing) that its WWWJDIC entry shows it in kanji like any other word, with no hint that it is a word usually written in kana (i.e., the entry has no "uk" code).

With all due respect to Jim Breen (and I really do mean that), the WWWJDIC is not perfect—it's a dictionary compiled by a non-native speaker with contributions from random people online. You'll find that there's a link on the page that still solicits corrections and contributions.

It's a GREAT reference, but "WWWJDIC says otherwise" isn't always a winning argument.

You'll find words like 是非 written in kanji in the WWWJDIC, too, but it's considered poor form to write ぜひ in kanji. Same with 有り難う御座います（ありがとうございます）、御目出 度う（おめでとう）, etc.

Hell, I can extend this statement to really include any dictionary. You'll find "ain't" is in the dictionary, but it does not change the fact that writing "ain't" in an essay is typically considered poor writing. Even though "ain't" was originally a correct contraction for "am not."

Just rest assured you will, over time, develop an eye for this sort of thing. I used to be as kanji-happy as most new learners, but over time, I learned to sense (and I'm still not perfect) when to use kanji and when not. It's like learning irregular verbs—you see the exceptions enough and you internalize them.

In general, if it's a word you've known and read in Japanese for 2+ years and just now go "hey, this is the kanji for it!" then you shouldn't use kanji for it. There's a reason you haven't seen it in kanji before.

[KyleGoetz]

Originally Posted by masaegu

Here's a website regardng this phenomenon by a major dictionary publisher.
http://dictionary.sanseido-publ.co.j.../subPage3.html

Thanks for the link!