正しい街 by 椎名林檎

[languagehacker]

I understand what this song is generally about, but there are some parts that are unclear:

不愉快な笑みを向け長い沈黙の後態度を更に悪くしたら
冷たいアスファルトに額を搾らせて期待はずれのあたし を攻めた

Who smiled? I don't understand clearly what happened after the boyfriend bowed. This seems to say he attacked her, but I don't see how he could do that while bowing. Maybe he said something offensive to her but it seems weird to do that at the same time he's bowing. I'm not picturing it. I assume that the reason he's bowing is he's begging her to stay.

君が周りを無くした

This says he "lost his surroundings," but what does that mean?

短い嘘を繋げ赤いものに替えて
疎外されていく本音を伏せた

What does it mean for the little lies to turn red? I've heard that it means 真っ赤な嘘, which means big lie, but someone else gave a different explanation about it having to do with fate.

The lyrics are here, followed by an analysis. I was having trouble understanding everything that was written there.

[masaegu]

Originally Posted by languagehacker

不愉快な笑みを向け長い沈黙の後態度を更に悪くしたら
冷たいアスファルトに額を搾らせて期待はずれのあたし を攻めた

Who smiled?

The narrator did. "I did ~~ and he did ~~."

I don't understand clearly what happened after the boyfriend bowed. This seems to say he attacked her, but I don't see how he could do that while bowing. Maybe he said something offensive to her but it seems weird to do that at the same time he's bowing. I'm not picturing it. I assume that the reason he's bowing is he's begging her to stay.

I would not call that bowing. I am picturing a 土下座.

The attacking must be verbal, not physical. He is not performing the 土下座 and the verbal attack simultaneously. Did a 土下座 and then spoke to her.

君が周りを無くした

This says he "lost his surroundings," but what does that mean?

I am assuming it to mean that he has lost his friends because of her.

短い嘘を繋げ赤いものに替えて
疎外されていく本音を伏せた

What does it mean for the little lies to turn red? I've heard that it means 真っ赤な嘘, which means big lie, but someone else gave a different explanation about it having to do with fate.

I do not buy the 真っ赤な嘘 theory for a minute. That would be something a teenager would say. I do not know what it is but I am picturing something much more grotesque/violent than a lie --- something like bare human rage.

[languagehacker]

Hello again, and thank you.

From the analysis that I've gathered, this is the story of a young woman who leaves her hometown of Fukuoka to become a singer in Tokyo. So around how old would she be? Could 真っ赤な嘘 then be possible?

If 赤いものに替えて means something like rage, then what does 短い嘘を繋げ赤いものに替えて疎外されていく本音を伏 せた become in English? Who was lying and who got mad?

After he kneeled and begged her to stay, would it make sense to get up and attack her verbally? It seems counterproductive.

[masaegu]

Originally Posted by languagehacker

Hello again, and thank you.

From the analysis that I've gathered, this is the story of a young woman who leaves her hometown of Fukuoka to become a singer in Tokyo. So around how old would she be? Could 真っ赤な嘘 then be possible?

If 赤いものに替えて means something like rage, then what does 短い嘘を繋げ赤いものに替えて疎外されていく本音を伏 せた become in English? Who was lying and who got mad?

After he kneeled and begged her to stay, would it make sense to get up and attack her verbally? It seems counterproductive.

Howdy! I originally was going to sit this one out but since no one was replying, I came in (not knowing you would be asking new questins ).

When I stated "That would be something a teenager would say.", I was referring to the person from whom you had heard that 赤いもの meant 真っ赤な嘘, not Shiina herself. Though Wiki does not say exactly when she went to Tokyo, I am assuming around 19 - 20. I just do not think that 真っ赤な嘘 is possible at all. It already says 短い嘘 and adding a phrase that means 真っ赤な嘘 makes it wordy, wouldn't you think? If anything, Shiina is a minimalist. She uses too few words to say what she wants to say, not the reverse.

It is the guy who lied and it is the narrator who was raged (if my understanding of 赤いもの is correct). My non-poet translation of 短い嘘を繋げ赤いものに替えて疎外されていく本音を伏 せた would along the lines of "By turning short lies into the big red, he turned down his alienated intentions." I know it sounds aweful but so does the original. The whole song consists of these surreal lines.

Shiina moves around freely in time and space. Do not take everythimng she says as if she said it in prose. It is not that he got up from his 土下座 and started verbaly attacking. Shiina, I think, is just trying to say that he used both tactics in his relationship with her. She is saying he always contradicted himself.

[languagehacker]

Thanks. Most things in Japanese I can figure out. The only hard things are those related to songs, and so far I've been getting the best answers on this site. I'll probably keep on asking more song related questions in the future until people stop answering or someone tells me why I should stop!

Your conviction about the meaning of 真っ赤な嘘, the fact that you are Japanese, and that you seem to have prior knowledge of 椎名 has convinced me that you are right. Are by any chance a fan, or is 椎名 just really well-known in Japan? (Hey, that rhymes! )

You wrote that the boyfriend was the one lying and Shiina was the one that got mad. The lyrics say 疎外されゆく本音を伏せた, meaning she left while hiding her true intentions. Since she's the one being deceptive here, wouldn't it make more sense that she was the one telling lies which made her boyfriend mad, which in turn gave her an excuse to leave while hiding her intentions to become a singer in the city?

There's this other part I don't understand:
足らない言葉よりも近い距離を好み 理解出来ていた様に思うが
君に涙を教えた

I understand the second line but not the first. I only included the second line in case it helps to make sense of the first.

I think this explains it, but I can't make much sense of it:
しかし、おそらく彼の観念主義はつきあってる過程で矯 正されてったんでしょう。「かくあるべし」という百メ ートル先に蜃気楼のように見える理想よりも、いま自分 の心のなかに感じられる温もりみたいなものに正直にな ってきたんじゃないかな。それはギクシャクの過程で胸 が切り裂かれるような切なさなどで徐々に判ってきたの でしょう。でも彼女（主人公）の方はまだディープに自 分の理想世界にハマってるからそこの波長が一致しない 。彼が「周りをなくし」ても「あたしはそれは無視」、 彼が「涙を教え（られ）」ても「あたしはそれも無視」 してしまう。

What do those two lines mean? Does the above paragraph explain it, or is it talking about something else?

[masaegu]

Originally Posted by languagehacker

Thanks. Most things in Japanese I can figure out. The only hard things are those related to songs, and so far I've been getting the best answers on this site. I'll probably keep on asking more song related questions in the future until people stop answering or someone tells me why I should stop!

Your conviction about the meaning of 真っ赤な嘘, the fact that you are Japanese, and that you seem to have prior knowledge of 椎名 has convinced me that you are right. Are by any chance a fan, or is 椎名 just really well-known in Japan? (Hey, that rhymes! )

You wrote that the boyfriend was the one lying and Shiina was the one that got mad. The lyrics say 疎外されゆく本音を伏せた, meaning she left while hiding her true intentions. Since she's the one being deceptive here, wouldn't it make more sense that she was the one telling lies which made her boyfriend mad, which in turn gave her an excuse to leave while hiding her intentions to become a singer in the city?

There's this other part I don't understand:
足らない言葉よりも近い距離を好み 理解出来ていた様に思うが
君に涙を教えた

I understand the second line but not the first. I only included the second line in case it helps to make sense of the first.

I think this explains it, but I can't make much sense of it:
しかし、おそらく彼の観念主義はつきあってる過程で矯 正されてったんでしょう。「かくあるべし」という百メ ートル先に蜃気楼のように見える理想よりも、いま自分 の心のなかに感じられる温もりみたいなものに正直にな ってきたんじゃないかな。それはギクシャクの過程で胸 が切り裂かれるような切なさなどで徐々に判ってきたの でしょう。でも彼女（主人公）の方はまだディープに自 分の理想世界にハマってるからそこの波長が一致しない 。彼が「周りをなくし」ても「あたしはそれは無視」、 彼が「涙を教え（られ）」ても「あたしはそれも無視」 してしまう。

What do those two lines mean? Does the above paragraph explain it, or is it talking about something else?

I am not a particularly big fan but I used to watch her sing when she sang on TV often. Now, I rarely hear her name in the media anymore. Shiina was once very popular here; That is for sure.

Your interpretation of the line 「短い嘘を繋げ赤いものに替えて阻害されゆく本音を伏 せた」 actually seems more than possible in retrospect. The reason for me to think otherwise, mostly, was the fact that in the very next stanza, she accuses him of being a liar:

「可愛い人なら捨てる程居るなんて云うくせに
どうして未だに君の横には誰一人居ないのかな」
_______

My own take on
「足らない言葉よりも近い距離を好み 理解出来ていた様に思うが
君に涙を教えた」
is that she thought that he found comfort in their "everyday" physical closeness despite her consistent lack of words but she made him cry in the end (by leaving the town).

And yes, the paragraph you posted tries to analyze those two lines. It is saying just about the same thing I said. Towards its end, it says that he changed and started finding a happiness in the fact that she was his GF and she was always near him, but the girl was still stuck in her "deep ideal world" , which put the two on different wave lengths. She was cold and brutal.

[languagehacker]

Originally Posted by masaegu

I am not a particularly big fan but I used to watch her sing when she sang on TV often. Now, I rarely hear her name in the media anymore. Shiina was once very popular here; That is for sure.

Your interpretation of the line 「短い嘘を繋げ赤いものに替えて阻害されゆく本音を伏 せた」 actually seems more than possible in retrospect. The reason for me to think otherwise, mostly, was the fact that in the very next stanza, she accuses him of being a liar:

「可愛い人なら捨てる程居るなんて云うくせに
どうして未だに君の横には誰一人居ないのかな」
_______

Could it be that the 真っ赤な嘘 refers to something that the boyfriend said? Like when he said "可愛いひとなら捨てる程いる?"

Also, someone else said

She tied several pieces of lies(＝嘘） together to make up "赤いもの"--or "運命の赤い糸," thread of fate/destiny that ties a man and a woman. It means they didn't truly understand each other....it was only pretension（嘘）.

She makes "嘘でできた赤い糸."-- then it becomes more difficult to show her "本音"(=本音が疎外されていく）。--then more and more she has to "本音を伏せる"（--Then she will have to make up more 「嘘」--a vicious circle.）

How does that explanation sound to you?

My own take on
「足らない言葉よりも近い距離を好み 理解出来ていた様に思うが
君に涙を教えた」
is that she thought that he found comfort in their "everyday" physical closeness despite her consistent lack of words but she made him cry in the end (by leaving the town).

And yes, the paragraph you posted tries to analyze those two lines. It is saying just about the same thing I said. Towards its end, it says that he changed and started finding a happiness in the fact that she was his GF and she was always near him, but the girl was still stuck in her "deep ideal world" , which put the two on different wave lengths. She was cold and brutal.

So is the subject the boyfriend and the object both of them? Could both of them be the subject as well?

Since the subject and object can be left out of Japanese sentences, I find that I have to consider up to nine possibilities when interpreting a line in this song:
1. Subject: Shiina Object: Shiina
2. Subject: Shiina Object: Boyfriend
3. Subject: Shiina Object: both of them
4. Subject: Boyfriend Object: Shiina
5. Subject: Boyfriend Object: Boyfriend
6. Subject: Boyfriend Object: both of them
7. Subject: both Object: Shiina
8. Subject: both Object: Boyfriend
9. Subject: both Object: both of them

Someone else thought that it meant, "Both of us preferred closeness in distance to words that often fail, and I thought we understood each other."

I asked him how he knew the subject was both of them. This is what he said:

As the verb "好み" assumes the 連用形(ren-you-kei) form, the subjects for "好み" and "理解できていた" have to be identical. The subject for these verbs could be her, but then what he means by "理解できる" would be a matter of intellect and the overtone would be that of a guy snubbing on his ex. It's not plausible that such a guy would use a nice, euphemistic phrase like ”君に涙を教えた”, so the context of ”理解出来ていた” must be that of tacit mutual understanding between them (incidentally, tacit understanding or agreement of this sort is a recurring theme in Japanese pop songs.)
There's another point in the language. The phrase ”様に思うが” in the original text modifies ”足らない言葉よりも近い距離を好み” as well as ”理解出来ていた”. I didn't translate that structure literally because the translated sentence would be a bit bulky.

What do you make of this?

[masaegu]

Originally Posted by languagehacker

Could it be that the 真っ赤な嘘 refers to something that the boyfriend said? Like when he said "可愛いひとなら捨てる程いる?"

Do you mean 「赤いもの」 instead of 「真っ赤な嘘」？ It could be.

In the line 「可愛い人なら捨てる程居るなんて云うくせにどうして 未だに君の横には誰一人居ないのかな」, the liar is clearly the guy. If your interpretation of 「短い嘘を繋げ赤いものに替えて阻害されゆく本音を伏 せた」 is correct, then it is the girl that is the liar in it, right? That means they both lied a lot, which seems to be a possibility. I am seriously geting confused. I feel as if I were reading a new story everytime I read the lyrics.

Also, someone else said
How does that explanation sound to you?

Interesting and reassuring because this was what I thought 赤いもの meant on my first reading. On my second and third, however, I formed my "rage" thoery. I think I was trying to read too deep into it and kind of lost my animal instincts as a Japanese-speaker in the process. Now, I am leaning back toward my first impression.

So is the subject the boyfriend and the object both of them? Could both of them be the subject as well?

Since the subject and object can be left out of Japanese sentences, I find that I have to consider up to nine possibilities when interpreting a line in this song:
1. Subject: Shiina Object: Shiina
2. Subject: Shiina Object: Boyfriend
3. Subject: Shiina Object: both of them
4. Subject: Boyfriend Object: Shiina
5. Subject: Boyfriend Object: Boyfriend
6. Subject: Boyfriend Object: both of them
7. Subject: both Object: Shiina
8. Subject: both Object: Boyfriend
9. Subject: both Object: both of them

Someone else thought that it meant, "Both of us preferred closeness in distance to words that often fail, and I thought we understood each other."

There are not 9 possibilities. Believe it or not, there are only two or three, max. We only need to look for the subjects for the 3 verbs　（好む・理解する・思う）. The objects are either already present or unnecessary.

好み is in the connective form, which is the same　as 好んで. What this means is that the subject for both 好む and 理解する is the same person --- "you". "I" or "we". The subject for 思う is clearly "I". It cannot be anyone else unless Shiina is trying to destroy the entire Japanese grammar.

So, that someone appears to know what he is talking about.

I asked him how he knew the subject was both of them. This is what he said:

What do you make of this?

Excellent knowledge, I must admit. I disagree on a point, though.

I myself still cannot give up on the idea that the subject would be "you" for the verbs 好む and 理解する. Fact is she left. How much comfort could she have felt in the fact that the two lived in the same town?

[languagehacker]

Originally Posted by masaegu

Do you mean 「赤いもの」 instead of 「真っ赤な嘘」？ It could be.

In the line 「可愛い人なら捨てる程居るなんて云うくせにどうして 未だに君の横には誰一人居ないのかな」, the liar is clearly the guy. If your interpretation of 「短い嘘を繋げ赤いものに替えて阻害されゆく本音を伏 せた」 is correct, then it is the girl that is the liar in it, right? That means they both lied a lot, which seems to be a possibility. I am seriously geting confused. I feel as if I were reading a new story everytime I read the lyrics.

Yes, I meant 「赤いもの」. The way I see it, all the little lies strung together were made by Shiina. Then the guy responded to Shiina's lies with his own big lie, which was 「可愛い人なら捨てる程居るなんて云うくせにどうして 未だに君の横には誰一人居ないのかな」. They both lie to each other, that's why words aren't very useful between them. That relates to the part that says 「足らない言葉よりも近い距離を好み」.

How does that sound? I'm still not sure on what 近い距離 means though. I'm pretty sure it means a physical closeness. Does it mean that she was already in the city and wanted to go back to her hometown to make him understand?

Interesting and reassuring because this was what I thought 赤いもの meant on my first reading. On my second and third, however, I formed my "rage" thoery. I think I was trying to read too deep into it and kind of lost my animal instincts as a Japanese-speaker in the process. Now, I am leaning back toward my first impression.



There are not 9 possibilities. Believe it or not, there are only two or three, max. We only need to look for the subjects for the 3 verbs　（好む・理解する・思う）. The objects are either already present or unnecessary.

好み is in the connective form, which is the same　as 好んで. What this means is that the subject for both 好む and 理解する is the same person --- "you". "I" or "we". The subject for 思う is clearly "I". It cannot be anyone else unless Shiina is trying to destroy the entire Japanese grammar.

So, that someone appears to know what he is talking about.



Excellent knowledge, I must admit. I disagree on a point, though.

I myself still cannot give up on the idea that the subject would be "you" for the verbs 好む and 理解する. Fact is she left. How much comfort could she have felt in the fact that the two lived in the same town?

So is this what you have in mind for the subjects?
1. 思う - Shiina (I)
2 .理解する - boyfriend (you)
3 .好む - boyfriend (you)
「足らない言葉よりも近い距離を好み 理解出来ていた様に思うが」
"You preferred closeness over words that fail. I thought that could understand but"

It sounds like you are assuming that this line is from the point of view of when Shiina has already left and her boyfriend wants her to come back. Am I right?

From other parts of the song though, like how she complains about how the city doesn't have things like Muromi river, it sounds like Shiina came back because she wanted to. The whole song is about how she realized that she was wrong and wants to come back, but in the end can't make it work out.

I can see how you'd think that it's her boyfriend that wants her to come back because the previous line talks about how she just left. But is it also possible that even though this line comes right after, some time has passed and it's already talking about how she wants to come back?

Could 「足らない言葉よりも近い距離を好み 理解出来ていた様に思うが」 be from Shiina's point of view before she left?
"We preferred closeness over words that fail. I thought we understood each other but"

If it's told from the point of view after she left, then I thought about,
"I preferred closeness over words that fail. I thought I could make you understand me but"

In other words she knows she can't convince him to see things her way over the phone, so she has to physically go back to see him. But this can't be right, because the subjects for like and understand don't match, right? I'm also not sure if 理解出来ていた can be translated to "could understand" or if it's just "understood."

[languagehacker]

Thanks for all your help. You can disregard the previous message as I've already uploaded my translation. This was the toughest song I've ever tried to translate.

My translation can be seen here:
YouTube - ‪Shiina Ringo - Tadashii Machi / "The Right Town" (subtitled) 【HD】‬‏

Do you think that you could look at it and tell me what you think? One part that's on my mind is in the beginning when I wrote "uncomfortable smile." I was thinking of writing "unhappy smile" instead. The other thing that I'm thinking about changing is where I wrote, "Little lies strung together filled our days." I think that "Little lies strung together were exchanged for a big lie" might be better. If you have a Youtube account, then it would be nice if you could tell me what you think over where my video is. If not, here is also fine.