Japanese Help Questions/Translations II

[masaegu]

Originally Posted by Mercury

ホシ大好きー♪
というか、自分の周りにある自然、全部大好き。

After looking at it a few times i'm thinking that i have to say ある and 自然 like it's one word.
Even though i know the words, i don't think i would have understood if someone said it to me in a conversation.

Is it a more natural way of saying 自分の周りの自然 ?

Are you familiar with the structure of the relative clause in Japanese? 「自分の周りにある自然」 is a relative clause. In Japanese, the main noun of a relative clause comes at the very end of it while, in English, it comes at the beginning.

自分の周りにある自然 = the nature that exists around me.

私が昨日行ったレストラン = the restaurant that I went to yesterday

[KyleGoetz]

Originally Posted by masaegu

Are you familiar with the structure of the relative clause in Japanese? 「自分の周りにある自然」 is a relative clause. In Japanese, the main noun of a relative clause comes at the very end of it while, in English, it comes at the beginning.

自分の周りにある自然 = the nature that exists around me.

私が昨日行ったレストラン = the restaurant that I went to yesterday

I'm not sure this is a helpful way of explaining it to a non-native speaker. Heck, I still have problems with why 運営者である私 is considered correct while 運営者の私. Is it because 運営者 cannot act as a noun/adjective thing with の, so you have to use である instead? It's not my confusion over relative clauses. I have zero problems with relative clause construction in Japanese when any verb is considered. ヘビの喰ったねずみ provides no problem for me. It's just when である is concerned. I wonder if I should be using の instead.

アメリカ人のカイル vs アメリカ人であるカイル is a very similar type thing. I've always had problems specifically with when to use 名詞である名詞. I remember back as a student this was always something that got corrected on my compositions.

masaegu, can you explain when to use 名詞である名詞 vs 名詞の名詞? I know sometimes の doesn't act as a possessive, so I'm not talking about the times when I mean "the X belonging to Y" as YのX.

[masaegu]

Originally Posted by KyleGoetz

I'm not sure this is a helpful way of explaining it to a non-native speaker. Heck, I still have problems with why 運営者である私 is considered correct while 運営者の私. Is it because 運営者 cannot act as a noun/adjective thing with の, so you have to use である instead? It's not my confusion over relative clauses. I have zero problems with relative clause construction in Japanese when any verb is considered. ヘビの喰ったねずみ provides no problem for me. It's just when である is concerned. I wonder if I should be using の instead.

アメリカ人のカイル vs アメリカ人であるカイル is a very similar type thing. I've always had problems specifically with when to use 名詞である名詞. I remember back as a student this was always something that got corrected on my compositions.

masaegu, can you explain when to use 名詞である名詞 vs 名詞の名詞? I know sometimes の doesn't act as a possessive, so I'm not talking about the times when I mean "the X belonging to Y" as YのX.

Not sure what 運営者である私 and 運営者の私 has to do with Mercury's question. In the original question, ある means "to exist" but in yours, it means "=", the equation.

運営者である私 and 運営者の私 are both correct although the latter may sound rather informal if used in situations in which the listener/reader would expect the former to be used.

運営者である私 = I, who is the manager
運営者の私 = me, the manager

More emphasis on "being the manager" is implied in the former phrase. If you are talking about a task that should be performed by none other than the manager, you would want to use the former. If you used the latter to talk about such a task, you could end up sounding like you were saying it could possibly be performed by the next person in the hierarchy.

In other words, it would be wise to use the former on a more serious topic and the latter on a less serious one.

１．Ａ国の今回の行動はアメリカ人であるカイルには受け入れがたい。

２．このサンドイッチはアメリカ人のカイルには小さ過ぎる。

If you use the other phrase for #1, it would still be acceptable though slightly too colloquial.

It would sound fairly strange if you said #2 using the other phrase.

[KyleGoetz]

Originally Posted by masaegu

Not sure what 運営者である私 and 運営者の私 has to do with Mercury's question. In the original question, ある means "to exist" but in yours, it means "=", the equation.

Haha, you're absolutely right. I got so caught up in my own problem that I got off topic!

運営者である私 and 運営者の私 are both correct although the latter may sound rather informal if used in situations in which the listener/reader would expect the former to be used.

運営者である私 = I, who is the manager
運営者の私 = me, the manager

More emphasis on "being the manager" is implied in the former phrase. If you are talking about a task that should be performed by none other than the manager, you would want to use the former. If you used the latter to talk about such a task, you could end up sounding like you were saying it could possibly be performed by the next person in the hierarchy.

In other words, it would be wise to use the former on a more serious topic and the latter on a less serious one.

あ、なるほど！

２．このサンドイッチはアメリカ人のカイルには小さ過ぎる。

うむ〜、オレ太ってへんとおもったねんけどなぁ...

OK, probably too much of a goofy attempt at Kansai dialect there!

[Mercury]

Originally Posted by masaegu

Are you familiar with the structure of the relative clause in Japanese? 「自分の周りにある自然」 is a relative clause. In Japanese, the main noun of a relative clause comes at the very end of it while, in English, it comes at the beginning.

自分の周りにある自然 = the nature that exists around me.

私が昨日行ったレストラン = the restaurant that I went to yesterday

Ah, that clears it up a bit. It was good getting a name for this kind of thing !
I think i've been on the topic in class, with descriptions of people.

Is "ビールを飲んでいる人" and "女と話している人" relative clauses then ?

[masaegu]

Originally Posted by Mercury

Ah, that clears it up a bit. It was good getting a name for this kind of thing !
I think i've been on the topic in class, with descriptions of people.

Is "ビールを飲んでいる人" and "女と話している人" relative clauses then ?

Yes, exactly!!

It may take a while for you to get used to this structure with the noun at the very end. It sure took me a while to get used to the relative clause in English, too.

[TBox]

Halfway through this sentence I lose track of which particles fill roles for which verbs:
もう星さんの事はどうでも良くなってて、この関係にず ぶずぶはまっている僕にこいつの…

A native tells me the first part is, "Actually, I've become less interested in Shou-san, but I find myself getting more involved in this relationship," then sort of wandered away (it's the internet...)

And then we hit boku ni. I don't know how much of the preceding is a relative clause, I don't know what verb that "ni" belongs to, and the rest of the sentence is meaningless to me. The bit about her back is because the narrator is embracing a woman from behind.

Can someone help me line up all the parts of this and translate it?

[kenshiromusou]

Yo, friends.
Could you help me here?
These syntagms are killing me...
原作では、Southern Crossの刺客となったkillersは13人であるが、エピソード的
に3つに集約され るため、別のエピソードへ登場させる、あるいは新たにオリジ
ナルのheroesを敵として登場させるといった変更を加えて いる。
After it says that in manga Souther Cross sent 13 killers, I don't understand the following (I don't understand if it talks about other killers, 3 episodes or 3 killers together in just one episode).

Thank you very much.

[masaegu]

Originally Posted by kenshiromusou

Yo, friends.
Could you help me here?
These syntagms are killing me...
原作では、Southern Crossの刺客となったkillersは13人であるが、エピソード的
に3つに集約され るため、別のエピソードへ登場させる、あるいは新たにオリジ
ナルのheroesを敵として登場させるといった変更を加えて いる。
After it says that in manga Souther Cross sent 13 killers, I don't understand the following (I don't understand if it talks about other killers, 3 episodes or 3 killers together in just one episode).

Thank you very much.

It is saying:

1. It is impossible to have all 13 killers appear in only 3 episodes.
2. So the creators made changes to have the 13 killers also appear in other episodes.
3. And they even created new original heroes so that the 13 can appear to fight them.

[masaegu]

Originally Posted by TBox

Halfway through this sentence I lose track of which particles fill roles for which verbs:
もう星さんの事はどうでも良くなってて、この関係にず ぶずぶはまっている僕にこいつの…

A native tells me the first part is, "Actually, I've become less interested in Shou-san, but I find myself getting more involved in this relationship," then sort of wandered away (it's the internet...)

And then we hit boku ni. I don't know how much of the preceding is a relative clause, I don't know what verb that "ni" belongs to, and the rest of the sentence is meaningless to me. The bit about her back is because the narrator is embracing a woman from behind.

Can someone help me line up all the parts of this and translate it?

Are you aware that 「もう星さんの事はどうでも良くなってて、この関係に ずぶずぶはまっている僕にこいつの…」 is an incomplete sentence?

It is usually impossible to translate an incomplete sentence because the word order is completely different between the two languages.

The second half lacks the main verb as well as other things. This makes translating the second half impossible because what is lacking, especially the verb, must come before the English counterpart for 「この関係にずぶずぶはまっている僕」.　If you know enough Japanese to tackle a phrase like this, you will know what I am talking about.

「この関係にずぶずぶはまっている僕」 sure is a relative clause but it is not the subject of the second half; therefore, it is followed by に.　

Something happened or someone did something to 「この関係にずぶずぶはまっている僕」= "me, who is deeply stuck in this relationship".