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akaringo444 (Offline)
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help with particles........ - 08-08-2007, 07:22 AM

I need help with joshi (or jyoshi; particles). This is referring to the use of the particle "de". I know that "de" can be used to indicate the cost of something (how much you paid for something). What I'm confused about is an expression "zenbu de". I'm assuming zenbu de indicates how much an item costs and not how much you paid for it? Also can de be used for quantity expressions?

I also have a question about the particle ni. It can be used to refer to
location of existence (indicates where something is located; ex:the cat is under the table; the apple is on the table). I've also heard the use of ni in this use is general and is used primarily to indicate where places or things are located. Is this right?

The uses of de and ni are so similar that it's confusing to me. Help with how each particle is used (how de is used and how ni is used) and the differences between how they're used would be much appreciated. I'm trying to understand how particles are used, but it's really confusing.


Oh a bit off topic in regards to this post, however I was wondering about this. What is a direct object (simple and clear definition that isn't confusing). What is an indirect object, a subject, and a predicate (simple and clear definitions with each, not confusing please). I know some parts of English grammar, but others are clear as mud to me, because I haven't studied basic English grammar since I was in elementary school.

Last edited by akaringo444 : 08-08-2007 at 07:32 AM.
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08-09-2007, 08:41 AM

This is why I'm asking.......

One of the uses for de can be.........

It is placed after a quantity, time or amount of money, and indicates an extent.


This is what I have for uses of de.......


1.Refers to being in an area for a temporary period of time.
2.Is used in regards to location (being at a place).
3.Indicates where an action takes place (can be translated into "in", "at", "on")
4.Indicates means or method of

5.As said above.......It is placed after a quantity, time or amount of money, and indicates an extent.

6.(this is the part I'm having trouble with, and I'm unsure if I'm right or wrong with the use of "de" here) is used to indicate the total cost of something

7.Indicates what an object is made of

This is the use I have for "ni" as a particle....

1.Usually refers to direction (in the process of going somewhere rather
than actually being somewhere)

2.refers to being at a place permanently (such as where you live)
3.refers to when something happens (a point in time; ex:I ate lunch at three p.m.)

4.Is used when a motion or action is directed at or onto an object (direct contact); which of course is about as clear as mud because I have no clue
what a direct object or an indirect object is (nor do I know what a subject
or a predicate is)

5.Is used with frequency expressions (per hour, per day, per person, etc.)


6.Is used to refer to location of existence (where something is located; I believe this is more general than if "de" were to be used in this regards.....is this right or wrong?)
----

These seem pretty much right to me.

In terms of the last question, you are correct

McDonald's DE taberu (I eat AT McDonald's)

You can't say "McDonald's NI taberu" because "taberu" isn't a verb that is about coming, going or being.
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