Martial Arts

[godwine]

Originally Posted by Jaydelart

I understand what you mean.

In my case, however, some of my training involves various dodging maneuvers that require a significant amount of flexibility and control to perform. Therefore, it is essential for me to stretch.
Muay Thai fighters (like yourself) generally don't flip or roll during a fight, so it's somewhat understandable that you wouldn't emphasize stretching to the same degree.

Different martial arts may encourage stretching at different levels -- but recognition of it's importance exists, nonetheless. It provides many of benefits.

~ But that still doesn't change the fact that I hate doing it, of course.

Strongly agree. I hope what I was about to say is not going to offend anyone, but why would you (Tenchu) make a comment like that? As mentioned, stretching provides many benefit, and no one said anything about kicking high and stretches.

Many don't have the gift you have to be able to kick high without stretching.

Kicking high is one thing, but doesn't all exercise and sport ask their athelete to stretch prior? Flexibility give you more impulsive power, while many consider "kick" alone is a form of dyanmic stretches, the "pulling" of your tendon is very different from the "pulling" of your muscle.

Something more scientific
If you are not flexible enough and even if you are, but your muscles is not in a relax "stretched" state, you won't be able to generate enough power, simple because as you kick, its MORE than your tendon thats being pulled, but the muscle, the muscle will react to this pull and contrapt. As a result, your own muscle becomes your enemies' defense, as now you can't kick as strong as you could. The other problem is that, if you do this repeatedly, you start building up tight muscle, not the type that you think you can show off with, but the type that is a form of an injuries. With kick, your glut (BUTT), is extremely vulnerable to this kind of injuries, long term kicking without proper stretches WILL damage this glut muscle, the tightening is known as Piriformis Symdrome (spelleing)... Its a long term problem that cannot be easily fixed, some have to go through surgery to have the muscle detached

High kicks are nice and great, but for the most part useless (sorry). In a fight the basic technique are usually the most useful

Concerning Muay Thai, they are great, and I don't know if they do stretches in class, but I have at leat 6 muay thai student that joined my class to learn how to strecht......

[TalnSG]

Originally Posted by godwine

Kicking high is one thing, but doesn't all exercise and sport ask their athelete to stretch prior? Flexibility give you more impulsive power, while many consider "kick" alone is a form of dyanmic stretches, the "pulling" of your tendon is very different from the "pulling" of your muscle.

Something more scientific
If you are not flexible enough and even if you are, but your muscles is not in a relax "stretched" state, you won't be able to generate enough power, simple because as you kick, its MORE than your tendon thats being pulled, but the muscle, the muscle will react to this pull and contrapt.

This certainly from an outsiders viewpoint when it comes to kicks, but even when I was weight training in college, which did not require any flexibility, an emphasis was placed on stretching at the beginning of the work out because of what you've described. If the muscles and tendons have not been stretched, there is less blood flow and flexibility than there would be otherwise. Thus there are less chemical resources for the muscles to use - hence less power and more risk of injury. Aside from flexibility being a general, life-long, health issue, why wouldn't you stretch to put your muscles at peak readiness? It doesn't take that long and it will pay off in the long run.

[godwine]

Originally Posted by TalnSG

This certainly from an outsiders viewpoint when it comes to kicks, but even when I was weight training in college, which did not require any flexibility, an emphasis was placed on stretching at the beginning of the work out because of what you've described. If the muscles and tendons have not been stretched, there is less blood flow and flexibility than there would be otherwise. Thus there are less chemical resources for the muscles to use - hence less power and more risk of injury. Aside from flexibility being a general, life-long, health issue, why wouldn't you stretch to put your muscles at peak readiness? It doesn't take that long and it will pay off in the long run.

Thanks for the backup You know, I've been teaching MA for quite a number of years, stretched athelete are also more responsive and have faster reaction... I weight train too, with MA in place, it makes it even more important because of muscle tightness

[Ramones1976]

I want to learn Wushu, Jujitsu/Judo, and Kendo

[Ronin4hire]

Originally Posted by Tenchu

... I dont think you are listening to what I am saying. I AM getting better. My kicks ARE getting higher. I AM gaining more control. This is not something you can pass off as a theory. For that matter I am the best high kicker at my gym, and I probably stretch the least.

[

Well if you're getting better it could possibly be due to increased strength and refined technique rather than a major improvement in flexibility. Sure you may be seeing gains... but the way in which you're training you'll never achieve the kind of kicks that I find amazing... which is OK because Muay Thai doesn't stress these kinds of kicks as these sorts of kicks are not practical to use in real life

Bottom line is you can't dismiss stretching... I'll leave you with this to think about.... the average Senior Wushu student or Black Belt TaekwonDo practitioner can hold their leg up and do all sorts of crazy things with it before putting it back on the ground. The Muay Thai fighter generally can't. Stretching is a big part of training in Wushu and Taekwondo and high kicks a more important technique in the art.

[Jaydelart]

Originally Posted by godwine

In a fight the basic technique are usually the most useful

I agree.

Originally Posted by Tenchu

Arogance will get you NOWHERE. With punches it is so fast paced and you normal have to land a combo to get a KO, but kick jousting is about timing, and you only have to land one to win. It all just takes practice.

In a real life situation, your opponent may not always be willing to "kick joust".

[Jaydelart]

Originally Posted by Tenchu

So what are you going to suggest then? I abandon my best KO technique? Punches are more likely to happen on the street, but that is because of the pants I wear I can not kick in! But lets say I was wearing more suitable clothing, all confrontations must pass through kicking range before punches can be thrown. And on the street most people you fight dont know how to fight, and if you punch them they will probably move back, not forward, and then you can kick em again! I dont see why not. I would do it. Yet did I even say this is the best method for street fighting? No. I was just talking about kicking.

This was the statement: godwine: "High kicks are nice and great, but for the most part useless (sorry). In a fight the basic technique are usually the most useful"

This was your response: Tenchu: "Arogance will get you NOWHERE. With punches it is so fast paced and you normal have to land a combo to get a KO, but kick jousting is about timing, and you only have to land one to win. It all just takes practice."

Highs kicks are a powerful thing to have in your repertoire, don't get me wrong. But when will you use it outside the ring or demonstration? Rarely -- if not never.
It is highly unlikely that you will get the opportunity to execute a High Kick in an informal fight; therefore, it is somewhat useless, in terms of martial value.
That is the point I was simply trying to express.

[Jaydelart]

I understand what you're saying; however...

A thug on the street isn't bound by rules and formalities like a professional in the ring or gym is.

People tend to "forget" their styles in street fights because they understand the reality. They accept the fact that it is no longer a game, and that attempting fancy moves can result in defeat.

Sometimes throwing a barrage of simple, controlled punches is better than waiting for the opportunity to perform a High Kick. That is simply the way I see it.

[Asakura]

Tenchu has a point, most Martial artists forget their styles on the street due to poor psycological training. A truely strong Martial artist can fight anywhere, implementing his style to the situation not the other way around.


People tent to get wrapped up in being "Martial Artists" and forget that Martial Arts are a millitary art. It is MENT to be used on the street, in truely deadly combat. And the reason we train so hard is so that when it comes down to who lives and who dies in a fight, we get to live. When we strip away all the philosophy and symantics where all just fighters.

As far as using kicks in a street fight. Oh hell yes it's done. Maby I'm bias becouse I'm a student of Taekwondo, but we are tought everyday how to street fight, and yes we implement kicks, pretty frequently.

[godwine]

I wasn't trying to be arrogant, that simply was a point of view. You are juging my ability to kick base my my expression of my opinion which was made based on 18 years of training.

FYI i teach tod. I have a third den in tod, I am able to kick higher than my head when standing and can kick over 180 with a jump. Highs kick is not my problem. I also trains in muay Thai for 5 years and a load of other arts

i am simply suggesting that stretches are good and it prevents injuries.