Platinum games (a.k.a Rape games) in Japan

[MMM]

Originally Posted by Ronin4hire

I think I need to see one of these rape games for myself maybe. I'm imagining these rape games to be simulated rape. Complete with crying, pleading for her life, possibly some violence, maybe a gun or knife held to the throat or head or even a loved one watching... you know pretty barbaric and disgusting stuff.

I can't imagine rape depicted acceptable... I mean I'm aware of the whole power fantasy. It's not rape though because you tend to think of the women as complicit in such fantasy scenarios.

I don't think that is what we are talking about, my sense it is more convincing or tricking women/girls to come up to your room.

I am glad you brought up the point about power, because I think that probably is a factor.

[Tordek42]

Originally Posted by Ronin4hire

I think I need to see one of these rape games for myself maybe. I'm imagining these rape games to be simulated rape. Complete with crying, pleading for her life, possibly some violence, maybe a gun or knife held to the throat or head or even a loved one watching... you know pretty barbaric and disgusting stuff.

I can't imagine rape depicted acceptable... I mean I'm aware of the whole power fantasy. It's not rape though because you tend to think of the women as complicit in such fantasy scenarios.

Well I have played RapeLay (one of the more graphic and controversial) games, and it involves crying (you can actually see the tears when you zoom in), and when you "rape" the youngest victim, it starts to get a bit too realistic (I didn't want to actually say what happens as it may upset some people)

[Salvanas]

Originally Posted by Tordek42

Well I have played RapeLay (one of the more graphic and controversial) games, and it involves crying (you can actually see the tears when you zoom in), and when you "rape" the youngest victim, it starts to get a bit too realistic (I didn't want to actually say what happens as it may upset some people)

I've played this game too, and I'd like to say what it's really like.

The victims only refuse at the beginning, after that, they just go along with it. So, it's nothing extreme.

[TalnSG]

Originally Posted by Salvanas

Because the only type of rape that is exaggerated, and over used, are female rape victims.

I mean, for example, how many times have you seen a male rape victim in the media? It's sexism in more ways than you'd imagine. And not just against women.

I'll turn your question on head actually, to drive the point home.

Why are women the only victims? Why isn't there any rape game where the woman is infact the rapist, and the man is the victim?

I can tell you now, that 90% of the answers to my question will be "Because men always want sex." But that's a typical sexist remark isn't it?

I'm always saddened to see a person bring up the sexism/woman card in rape situations. If I'm not mistaken, and I can remember properly, the statistics were that male rape victims were higher than female rape victims. I'll try to find the site, but I'm watching some TV at the moment.

Don't jump on the sexism bandwagon, please, Taln. You're so much more intelligent than that, and it's so much more deeper than sexism.

Salvanas, I thought you knew me better than to misinterpret my motivation behind the questions.

Your statistics are exactly why I raised the question. The games do not accurately reflect the crime it is supposed to be about, unless it factors in the assaults on men. And those assaults are perpetrated on men by both genders. You prooved my point that the games are extremely bias and prejudicial against females; by the mere exclusion of men as victims - incorrectlyinferring that males are too superior to fall victim to such assaults.

[TalnSG]

Originally Posted by komitsuki

The answer is: People living in CKJ don't make sex-related issues as much as possible; very reserved opinion. Sex is really a personal stuff or closet stuff for few like-minded people over there.

When I used to live in South Korea, I have never seen anybody who would talk about sex to a familiar person unless it is a very close friend. Then again, when I had a sex-ed class in South Korea, it was more about academic purposes, no "sex is evil!" or "sex is good!" attitudes.

Hope that make sense. I can see huge differences between the attitudes.

Good points, Komitsuki. Unfortuantely, the U.S. can't seem to keep opinions out of sex-ed classes - in the very few places it is actually taught. When I taught sex related classes to adults at a community center in the '90s I worked very hard to make sure that what ever opinions were expressed by those present were countered by the opposing views - even if it conflicted with my own.

[TalnSG]

Originally Posted by Salvanas

I've played this game too, and I'd like to say what it's really like.

The victims only refuse at the beginning, after that, they just go along with it. So, it's nothing extreme.

Ok, that is the classic scenario for rape FANTASIES, and has nothing whatsoever to do with reality. And that is where my first serious opbjection to these games begins.

This reinforce the viscious myth that women only resist sex and have to have it forced upon them, after which they will enjoy it. That is the single most wide spread justification presented by defendants in date rape prosecutions. And since this it marketed to teenagers, it needs to stop.

From another perspective, I used to be heavily involved in both S&M and Domestic Violence education. Guess what the strongest link between to is ... rape fantasies!

But, nearly every time someone decides to play one out for real with a willing partner, the person in power is the first to discover that reality is scarey and it is the wrong path to head down. Unfortunately there are those exceptions and the partner is seriously damaged emotionally, psychologically and physically.

I don't say these should be banned, but I do say that their distribution needs to be extremely controlled. The problem is devising workable controls and when that is not feasible, then the issued of prohibiting the production needs to be re-examined.

[Salvanas]

Originally Posted by TalnSG

Ok, that is the classic scenario for rape FANTASIES, and has nothing whatsoever to do with reality. And that is where my first serious opbjection to these games begins.

This reinforce the viscious myth that women only resist sex and have to have it forced upon them, after which they will enjoy it. That is the single most wide spread justification presented by defendants in date rape prosecutions. And since this it marketed to teenagers, it needs to stop.

From another perspective, I used to be heavily involved in both S&M and Domestic Violence education. Guess what the strongest link between to is ... rape fantasies!

But, nearly every time someone decides to play one out for real with a willing partner, the person in power is the first to discover that reality is scarey and it is the wrong path to head down. Unfortunately there are those exceptions and the partner is seriously damaged emotionally, psychologically and physically.

I don't say these should be banned, but I do say that their distribution needs to be extremely controlled. The problem is devising workable controls and when that is not feasible, then the issued of prohibiting the production needs to be re-examined.

I see your point, but again, all it does is re-enforce the point that people who have the mindset to rape someone, will do so regardless of a game. Ah, if you think that rape games should be changed to show the reality of the action, then perhaps so. That's understandable, in a way I agree with you.

I, again, would like to state that a fantasy is a fantasy. It does no harm, unless the person who has the fantasy will injure someone while acting out the fantasy.

It's a power problem. Let me give you a perfect example. And I'm going to use my own self for this example to drive the point home. I played a game a few months ago, called God of War, where you play someone who chops, and cuts his way through multiple levels, with limbs flying everywhere, screams cutting out through the darkness. Your character pulls off a few gruesome combos, and most people I was with, cringed as if feeling the pain.

I on the other hand, was enjoying it, more so than someone who is playing the game. I found out, at that point in time, that I have this weird sadistic sort of fantasy inside me. You can imagine what I'm getting at, so I won't go on.

Is it bad for me to have this fantasy? No. But if I enacted it in reality, then it would be. Luckily, however, that I am not the type of person. If I was, however, regardless if I had played that game, I would have already enacted such acts in reality. It's all down to the person.

Someone who is ill, mentally, will stay ill mentally, regardless of whatever they hear, or see.

Salvanas, I thought you knew me better than to misinterpret my motivation behind the questions.

Your statistics are exactly why I raised the question. The games do not accurately reflect the crime it is supposed to be about, unless it factors in the assaults on men. And those assaults are perpetrated on men by both genders. You prooved my point that the games are extremely bias and prejudicial against females; by the mere exclusion of men as victims - incorrectlyinferring that males are too superior to fall victim to such assaults.

And yet again Taln, I can turn that on it's head. It's victimising men, saying that only men are the one who rapes, and women are not capable.

It's not only bias against women. You'll find it's prejudicial against both sexes. I'm sure we can both agree on that.

But, the problem is, I dislike using that as an excuse. Because I don't feel that has any relevance. Although I'm an egalitarian (equal rights for all races and sexes. And no, it's not feminism. Feminism isn't about equality any more) some things in life are as they are.

I don't mind men being some of the victims in these rape games, only if the roles are switched, and women are the rapist. Fair trade.

Also, interestingly, I know a few women who play these rape games, because they have fantasies about being raped.

[TalnSG]

As usual, you and I are in basic agreement, Salvanas.

And yes, let's be clear that rape - at least the real sort and usually the fantasy too, is first and foremost about power, not really sex. In the real world sex is merely the tool for exertion of power. And because sex is the ultimate personal act, it is one of the most intense demonstrations of power that is possible to inflict by a single person.

And yes, because of the abdication of responsibility and power, there are many women who share the fanasty.... as long as it remains a fantasy.

For those of us with a dominate and sadistic side, it becomes a question of self restraint, consequences, personal inclinations and the weighing of reality vs. fantasy.

[Salvanas]

Aye, it's all about power. And with that, I'd like to answer Ronin's reply.

Ronin, you may think it's a bullsh*t excuse to let rape games so people can live their fantasies in a game, but since it's about power, I feel that it works. It's not a sexual thing, and if over a game, someone can get rid of their urge at the point to assert their power over someone in a game, I don't see why not. It'll stop them from doing so in reality.

I'm not sure about you, but I know many people get pissed off in work, or worked up, and so they go and punch and punching bag, or play a violent game where they can release. It's the same thing. If we took away, for example, the punching bag, the person would stay worked up, get even more worked up, and who knows might injure somebody.

[Megabyte117]

Not saying I advocate games like this, but how is it any different from GTA? Is murder not as "bad" as rape? Because as soon as someone plays the It-will-fuel-fantasy card, that can also be applied to the majority of M rated games. As soon as rape games are banned, what's to stop banning any games that involve killing?