staying in/moving to Japan

[Akakage]

Sorry double post.

[Nyororin]

Originally Posted by Akakage

Just wanted to add my two cents here if yall don't mind. There are other ways to get into Japan without having a 4 degree. You can study in Japan on a student visa, receive a culture visa by studying a form of Japanese culture (for example learning how to create bonsai, studying martial arts, etc...) You can qualify for a skilled labor visa by having 10 or more years experience in a certain field. (This is how I am going to Japan).

The big problem with recommending the skilled labor visa is that they are very rarely granted without having a degree. In fact, almost none of the working visa actually list a 4 year degree as a requirement - it`s not necessarily the legal requirement that we speak of here. In order to get any of the working visas (skilled labor not excluded) you have to have a position lined up. Most employers require certain levels of education. And if they don`t, then there is no reason to look abroad in the first place.
It`s not the visa laws themselves as much as the "finding somewhere to hire you" bit.

The only people I have heard of getting skilled labor visas are those with VERY specialized skills. Specialized skills aren`t really something you can just casually suggest someone do - In the end, it may be easier to just do a 4 year degree than stack up more than 10 years of a skill that requires talent to begin with.

In the end, you`re still going to have to find somewhere that will hire you - and 99 times out of 100, they`ll choose the person with a degree plus experience over the guy with no degree and experience. Even if the law says you are eligible for that visa, without a job placement you can`t even apply.

[Miyavifan]

skilled labor visa... that would entail actual college training, right?

[blackazn4eva]

in still very confused about how to move there cuz im 16 and i really want to live in japan by the time im 18

[Akakage]

Originally Posted by Nyororin

The big problem with recommending the skilled labor visa is that they are very rarely granted without having a degree. In fact, almost none of the working visa actually list a 4 year degree as a requirement - it`s not necessarily the legal requirement that we speak of here. In order to get any of the working visas (skilled labor not excluded) you have to have a position lined up. Most employers require certain levels of education. And if they don`t, then there is no reason to look abroad in the first place.
It`s not the visa laws themselves as much as the "finding somewhere to hire you" bit.

The only people I have heard of getting skilled labor visas are those with VERY specialized skills. Specialized skills aren`t really something you can just casually suggest someone do - In the end, it may be easier to just do a 4 year degree than stack up more than 10 years of a skill that requires talent to begin with.

In the end, you`re still going to have to find somewhere that will hire you - and 99 times out of 100, they`ll choose the person with a degree plus experience over the guy with no degree and experience. Even if the law says you are eligible for that visa, without a job placement you can`t even apply.

In short what you're saying is that just because you qualify for a visa doesn't mean a company will hire you correct? I agree with that but the reason why I suggested that Miyavifan look into this is that she mentioned she's 35, which means that there's a chance she might have 10+ years experience in a certain field. She also said she doesn't have the money to pay for a college so this maybe her only viable option. I'm not saying that she's going to automatically get a visa because of this, but it will allow her to apply for a job in Japan. Are her skills in demand in Japan? I don't know. But if you don't qualify for a visa, there is nothing a Japanese company can do to help you. But if you do qualify for a visa, whether by having a degree or having experience, and the company likes you and hires you, they will sponsor you for a visa to live and work in Japan.

Will there be competition for the jobs? Most definitely. But that's the same not matter what country you go to. Will she be competing with people who have degrees? Most certainly. But is there a chance she could get hired? Indeed there is. I'm not saying this to pick a fight or trying to contradict you. I'm just saying this because it is possible. I know because I am in the middle of a series of interviews with a company in Japan. Nothing is set in stone and I might not get the job but they were more than willing to interview with me and they tell me they are pressing forward to have me hired. I don't have a degree, just 10 years experience in the IT field. What I've realized is that looking for a job in japan is like anywhere else. You have to qualify for the position, you have to sell yourself and make a really good impression on the employers. Does having a degree help? Sure. But not having one doesn't mean you shouldn't apply for a position.

Miyavifan The experience included in the skilled labor visa includes any schooling, whether college or vocational school, that applies to the field you are working in. For example I went to a technical school here in the US. The time I spent there counts towards the 10 years experience. Have you been in certain field of work for sometime?

[MMM]

Just because a company will hire you doesn't mean you qualify for a visa.

And if you are competing with people with degrees, 99 times out of 100 that will trump you. Japanese companies value 4-year-degrees VERY highly in the hiring process. At my old company my Japanese boss would ask that the very first thing when a resume came in. "What school did he graduate from?"

[Tsuwabuki]

MMM is definitely right. Your company sponsors you, but it does not, I repeat, does not get to make the decision. Immigration is very picky, and sometimes it's up to the individual immigration officer and whether or not he likes you! In my own case (I'm in the middle of obtaining my visa right now), I have to get a pile of documents together Immigration may... or may not actually need/want to see. There's as good a chance I'll only have to show my diploma as there is that I'll have to show them transcripts, letters of graduation, recommendations, resume, AND diploma, or any combo therein. Your company can help you by writing a nice long letter to Immigration explaining why you fit their qualifications, but it's no guarantee. The best thing to do is to shower, and I do mean shower, Immigration with paperwork declaring how qualified you are. If you dump a stack of papers on their desk, especially before they ask for it, that screams, "I'M QUALIFIED," Immigration is much more likely to grant your visa. Act like you know that visa is already yours (politely of course) and your self-confidence will help a lot.

And yeah, in Japan, a bachelors is cruise control for cool. Especially if your degree is from a known university. I'm fairly lucky, University of Texas is known worldwide.

[Nyororin]

In Japan - having a bachelors is something akin to having a high school diploma in the US. I think that there was a 95% high school graduation rate, with 85% of the graduates going to to a 4 year university. Even those who don`t go on to a 4 year university usually go to a 2 year (mostly women) or enroll in some sort of higher education.
So we`re talking about more than 90% of the current job seekers having a university degree.

Also keep in mind - Japan also PREFERS to hire people with little or no experience. Companies all have their own extensive education and training programs. It`s easier to teach someone from scratch than to try to change habits that are already set.
A fresh university graduate has considerably more appeal than someone with 10 or 15 years of experience.
Unless you have a VERY specialized skill that is in high demand and that can`t be filled via the university graduate route (Think very exotic things, like someone who can repair and rebuild antique clockworks, or who has developed a new and unique manufacturing process that is in very high demand... etc) they will almost ALWAYS choose the graduate over you.

While you may be technically eligible for the visa - you have quite a few hurdles. The first is finding somewhere that will hire you over the huge selection of fresh graduates and university graduates with experience (Remember, even farmers out in the middle of nowhere here usually have degrees). And then, if you do find a place willing to go through all the paperwork and costs involved in sponsoring a foreign employee... You have to prove to immigration that you are more qualified for the limited visa spots than , say, someone with visible qualifications.

Both of these are VERY difficult. Unless you`re one of the only 5 people in the world capable of doing something, it`s worse than an uphill battle. It`s like trying to walk up the side of a wall.

There is no advantage in a Japanese company hiring someone from outside Japan who has fewer skills and qualifications than someone in Japan, who they can talk to 100% from day one. It costs a lot of money, takes a lot of time in paperwork, and involves a lot of legal responsibility. Where is the appeal for the company?

[Tsuwabuki]

Originally Posted by Nyororin

In Japan - having a bachelors is something akin to having a high school diploma in the US. I think that there was a 95% high school graduation rate, with 85% of the graduates going to to a 4 year university.

I should have been clearer. I was talking about foreigners, working in jobs where foreigners are desired.

You can get in without a 4 year degree, as I say, but it's the first thing they look for, and if you don't have it, you have to present all these substitutions for it.

Do you agree this is accurate?

[MMM]

Originally Posted by Tsuwabuki

I should have been clearer. I was talking about foreigners, working in jobs where foreigners are desired.

You can get in without a 4 year degree, as I say, but it's the first thing they look for, and if you don't have it, you have to present all these substitutions for it.

Do you agree this is accurate?

99% of jobs were foreigners are desired are in language teaching. There are so many people with degrees that apply, resumes of people without degrees would probably not make it far in the process.

Think about this...and this goes back the the "pride in one's work" category.

I am in charge of hiring in a Japanese company. I get 10 resumes from foreigners for job X. Among those 8 have degrees and 2 don't. I may think one of those 2 is really qualified, but I am not going to hire her. Why? Because when I tell my boss I hired a degree-less candidate, he'll say "What did you do that for?" If she makes ANY mistake, it will be MY fault, because I am the one who hired an under-qualified candidate. I must think about what's best for the company, and Japanese companies aren't in the business of taking risks or going out on a limb for the people they hire.