For all those bazzilion I want to be a Japanese citizen/ preminant resitant people

[SSJup81]

Originally Posted by Nyororin

ETA: This is a bit of a touchy subject in my case, as I do have real valid reasons. Everytime someone non-Japanese (or rather, from English speaking countries) hears that I am pursuing citizenship... Their immediate response is "Why do something like that? It`s not like you`ll ever REALLY be Japanese. You`ll ALWAYS be a gaijin!"
That`s not the point, and that`s not what I`m aiming for.

I'm surprised you've actually received reactions like that given how long you've lived there and that you're married with a child too. Seriously, seeing that you're pursuing a Japanese citizenship doesn't surprise me in the least. It makes sense since you have no intention of returning to the US to reside.

IMO, if you live in a place for a very long time and don't plan on moving back to your home country for whatever the reason, I could see why a person would want a citizenship in said country.

If I ever move to Japan, or any country, and like it enough to want to continue living there permanently, especially if I've been there for 5+ years, and I have a place to live there and am working, even I wouldn't mind pursuing a citizenship...or at least a dual one, if it was possible.

Out of curiosity, is it possible to get a dual citizenship? What's the process for that?

[tommasi]

Originally Posted by SSJup81

Out of curiosity, is it possible to get a dual citizenship? What's the process for that?

No, Japan does not recognize dual citizenships.

At least that's what they say but there are people with special circumstances with dual citizenships.

For example, Nyororin's son can basically keep both nationalities and although Japanese govt says that people with dual citizenship must decided before 22, many people end up just not reporting and keep both passports.

Anyways, it's not so surprising for people to react negatively in Nyororin's case because most Americans cannot imagine giving up American citizenship to get inferior Japanese citizenship or something like that.

I'm sometimes amazed how little people know about Japan.

Many people around me still think Japanese wear kimono and samurais still exist or something.

Lack of knowledge is a scary thing...

[Nathan]

Originally Posted by tommasi

Many people around me still think Japanese wear kimono

Well, they do, just only for ceremonial occasions!

Edit: I don't really see it as a 'fear of foreigners' as some people have said. You do have to realize that Japan is a far older country than most Western countries, yet has only really been exposed to western civilization for 75-100 years. Most Western civilizations have been openly trading for centuries.

It's not a 'fear', its more of a 'this is our boat, don't rock it' style of thinking.

Disclaimer: This is just my opinion, I'm open to facts to disprove me

[Nyororin]

For example, Nyororin's son can basically keep both nationalities and although Japanese govt says that people with dual citizenship must decided before 22, many people end up just not reporting and keep both passports.

A random note - my son does not have dual citizenship. He only has Japanese citizenship. We attempted to register him for US citizenship after he was born, but the embassy requested that we do so within 90 days of his birth or face triple fees. Fine - but he was in the hospital for 5 months after birth and definitely not in a state that would allow us to take passport photos. (Unobstructed face? Umm, not when you`re on life support.) The refused to work with us on this point, telling us 1) Bring him in, along with a medical team to keep him alive for the trip to Osaka and back. or 2) Bring in 3 doctors to verify that what we were saying was true - along with a translator certified by the embassy ($$$$$) if they couldn`t speak fluent English.

And, after clarifying the situation, they had the nerve to say "Why bother registering him? He`s not going to survive anyway."

Never mind that. We can cope without US citizenship, thank you very much.

I'm surprised you've actually received reactions like that given how long you've lived there and that you're married with a child too. Seriously, seeing that you're pursuing a Japanese citizenship doesn't surprise me in the least. It makes sense since you have no intention of returning to the US to reside.

The natural assumption, it seems, even among 99% of the other foreign wives in Japan is that the ultimate goal is to take family back to whatever country I was born in. The very idea of taking Japanese citizenship is something unthinkable.
The current thinking seems to be that having US citizenship is much "safer" than Japanese. Especially as "You`ll never really be Japanese anyway!"

[Nathan]

No one ever said you need to have social skills and manners to work in government facilities.

Originally Posted by Nyororin

The natural assumption, it seems, even among 99% of the other foreign wives in Japan is that the ultimate goal is to take family back to whatever country I was born in.

This is one of the reasons why I avoided a relationship during my stay in Japan. It did seem that people assumed a Japanese + gaijin couple would eventually end up in gaikoku. I knew that I wouldn't be in Japan long as an English "teacher".

I would like to move back to Japan, I found myself living happier and healthier than in Canada, but I need to learn a desired skill first. I can't see myself being an eikaiwa teacher for the rest of my life (let alone the shady practices with most of the larger chains).

[Nyororin]

Originally Posted by Nathan

This is one of the reasons why I avoided a relationship during my stay in Japan. It did seem that people assumed a Japanese + gaijin couple would eventually end up in gaikoku. I knew that I wouldn't be in Japan long as an English "teacher".

Japanese people don`t make the assumption as much. Occasionally I`ll be asked if we ever plan to live abroad, but usually they are more shocked that I don`t already have citizenship than anything else... And surprised to hear that you don`t automatically receive it by marrying a Japanese national.

To give the embassy worker a bit of slack - the health center here said something vaguely similar when I went to renew my son`s hospital insurance thing. "Wow! I never thought he`d last this long! Look everybody, the 400 grammer is still alive!" But at least they didn`t say that he would die to my face. (Not that I wasn`t thinking that myself, but it`s another story altogether.)

ETA: A bit off on a tangent, so not going to bother making a new post for this... But... Something that often annoys me about a lot of the other "international" couples in Japan is that the foreign side almost NEVER seems to take into account the feelings of the Japanese side in regard to where they will live. They assume that if the other party is marrying them, they will agree with moving away from Japan, no questions asked. This has been the #1 reason I have seen for marriages failing. Somehow the Japanese side`s desire to be near family or in a country where they speak the language well, etc, is virtually NEVER considered nearly as important as the foreign side`s desire to be close the *their* family and in the country they grew up in. I have never seen a marriage where this was an issue last.

[Nathan]

That's a reason why I could live with a Japanese spouse within Japan, if it were to happen. They do seem very family oriented, but I myself can go for extended periods of time without seeing family. I know I may sound cold. Its not that I don't care for my family, its just that I don't have the strong desire to have to see them. I did go live abroad for 2 years in my early 20's =p I only returned because I was one of the Nova "drones" (as all eikaiwa called us) that went home after it went bottom up.

On the note of the health center: I thought most Japanese made a point to avoid being blunt? Guess I was wrong.

[laurengl88]

Originally Posted by Nyororin

That may be the case... But I`d say it`s more that people don`t want those not truly involved in the country to have a say rather than "non-Japanese". I don`t think any country really wants someone who doesn`t really have a true stake in their country to have a political voice - especially if it can rival that of those who *do*. Who wants local policy to be decided by someone who is likely going to be moving away in a year or two? In the end, that *is* what would happen if it were extremely easy to get citizenship. If you don`t consider the country you are living in to be "your" country, then you`re less likely to give deep thought into what your choices may mean for those who do. Not everyone is like that, but many are. In the end, in the back of their minds, many people would push toward making their current country of residence more like "their" country. If you don`t consider the country you are thinking of applying for citizenship in "your country" - then you shouldn`t really be applying.

I`ve had nothing but good and helpful responses from everyone on the Japanese side in applying for citizenship. The US side is dragging it`s heels, "misplacing" my applications for various documents, etc etc. It should not take a year to process my request for a certified copy of my birth certificate.

I definitely agree that people should wait before applying for another country`s citizenship. However, it`s really a moot point in Japan`s case, as you can`t apply unless you`ve been here quite some time anyway.

I totally agree with this. It's not so much becoming Japanese, but rather, being able to say you belong to the country that you love and view as home.

[Ronin4hire]

Originally Posted by Nyororin

Hmm... I still don`t see exactly where you are going with this. Do you see it as wrong of me to continue the citizenship process despite the fact that I`ll never really "be Japanese" in the ethnic sense? To persist in attempting to gain the same legal rights via citizenship?

I know that you aren`t necessarily referring to my case, or cases like mine, so I will give you slack. However, it`s still a slippery slope to downplay someone`s desire for citizenship based on your views of what that citizenship means. There is a lot more to it than that.

.

Sorry... you've misunderstood again (my fault for not being clearer). I don't PERSONALLY think it's wrong for anyone, anywhere to apply for citizenship.

But I think if you understand the nature Japan's national identity (put simply it emphasizes geneology rather than ideology) then in order for you to be able to achieve citizenship which relates to national identity then you have the uphill task of challenging to some extent, the very national identity with which Japan in general believes in. What is surprising to me is that some people are willing to do that.

In essence I'm not really downplaying someone's desire for citizenship based on MY views of what citizenship means. Rather downplaying the desire of those that seek citizenship in a country based on whether or not it goes against the general view of what citizenship means to that particular country.

Personally I don't think Japan's culturally conservative approach is inherently wrong. It would be wrong if my (New Zealand) government were to adopt a similar approach though as the history and circumstances of New Zealand are different.

For what it's worth though I do think the Japanese government needs to cut you some slack though via the fact that you are married to a Japanese citizen who lives in Japan.

[Ronin4hire]

Originally Posted by Nyororin

Thank you.


Plus there are other, more personal reasons, such as not wanting to hurt my grandmother who would have been very very sad to see me taking a path that would mean giving up US citizenship in the end. And, well, because it simply isn`t a light decision to begin with.

Interesting.

I am all for dual citizenship laws. In NZ you are allowed to be a dual citizen. A citizen of New Zealand and of whatever other country you feel allegiance to. I'm under the impression that the European Union countries as well as countries like Malaysia and Singapore also allow dual citizenship.