The word 'Gaijin'

[chachava]

Originally Posted by Nathan

Now you're comparing a word that some see with a tone of racism to words that were created out of racism and hatred.

Edit: MMM beat me to it =p

And you're really stretching if you're making those comparisons.

Why are you so dead set on this being racist? Have you personally had a Japanese citizen call you a gaijin with racist or discriminatory intent?

What difference should it matter where the word originated? Surely anything that can carry a racist connotation can be racist regardless of it's history?

I'm not dead set on this being racist (until my g/f said she didn't like it, I used to use the word) but nobody can give a convincing arguement why it is NOT racist other than 'yeah, it just means you are not Japanese' which doesn't really prove it either way

[Henbaka]

Originally Posted by blimp

the reasoning that japanese ppl can't hate the word gaijin is just nonsense. take the very unfortunate word bitch, usually aimed at the female population, but as a male i can't hate it? that logic doesn't make sense.

Dunno if that was directed at me. If such was the case then you misunderstood me. They can hate the word, but I feel that it would be wrong that a japanese person goes around and feels bad and offended by a word directed solely at foreigners (whom mostly doesn't care).

It's like white people going around bitching about how bad they feel when they hear the n-word, although it's admirable that they care and have a sense of what's right and wrong; they (we) don't _really_ get personally affected. So stop the terms that discriminate people, but dont get all high and mighty and speak about how "offended" you personally are.

Any black men/women here? I'm just curious as to how you percieve a white man/woman talking about how offended they are when they hear words discriminating black people?

Also, as this thread indicates...

..."gaijins" don't really care. So save the drama.

[Henbaka]

Originally Posted by chachava

What difference should it matter where the word originated? Surely anything that can carry a racist connotation can be racist regardless of it's history?

I'm not dead set on this being racist (until my g/f said she didn't like it, I used to use the word) but nobody can give a convincing arguement why it is NOT racist other than 'yeah, it just means you are not Japanese' which doesn't really prove it either way

How is it racist when it's not directed at a race?

[chachava]

Originally Posted by Henbaka

How is it racist when it's not directed at a race?

ok, you need some help so here we go:

rac·ism Audio Help /ˈreɪsɪzəm/
–noun 1. a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.


It doesn't need to be aimed at a single race to be racist

[Kanji_The_Wanderer]

There is no point in carrying on this topic. Everyone is sticking to their own beliefs and no one is being swayed.

It's useless to keep on saying the same thing over and over, people are just wording it differently each time.

Also, I don't think it's appropriate to bring in other cultures into this argument, everyone is comparing actual racist words against Africans/Japanese to a Japanese word that people are trying to make racist, when it actual isn't.

[Firebird]

Well i will still write a little question in here.
I have got a T-shirt saying "Baka Gaijin" in Kanji (and there is a small translation saying "Stupid foreigner" underneath).
do you think i can wear that in Japan? Because i actually thought that people might find it funny. But i dont want to be offending or anything, so what do you think? Of course i wont wear it if im working or meeting older Japanese, but is it ok to wear it in the evenings, karaoke, or stuff?

Firebird

[hennaz]

I do not think Japanese are racist, I just think they are xenophobic. That's different from being racist, because racism is the belief that some races are superior/inferior to others. The Japanese are just not used to or qualified to help foreigners, because they are not so many foreigners in Japan at the moment, and because they are worried that foreigners would speak to them in something not in Japanese, and they won't know how to help them. Also note that very few Japanese can speak English (or any other language besides Japanese).
I personally don't like the word "gaijin" because it literally translates as "outsider", calling a foreign person an ousider to me sounds quite harsh. When I went to Japan last year I used the word "gaijin" to describe myself sometimes, but I still find (and have found) that word politically incorrect. If a Japanese called me a "gaijin", I would be quite offended.

[MMM]

Originally Posted by chachava

Can you explain WHY it isn't factually correct? They are both Japanese and a bastard if that situation is true...

Because Jap is a derogatory term. There is no time that is isn't derogatory.

Bastard is also a derogatory term. There is no time nice way to use it in a sentence and not offend the target.

Gaijin is not a derogatory term. It can be used in a derogatory way, of course, just as words like "bald", "short", "black" and any other adjectives can be. The fact that it also has neutral connotations means that it is in a different catagory from "Jap".

From wiki: The official three-letter and two-letter international country codes (ISO 3166) for Japan are JPN and JP, while the international language codes (ISO 639) for Japanese are jpn and ja (not jp).

Originally Posted by chachava

Anyway, 'jap' is a shortened form of 'Japanese'... surely it's double standards to say that is racist and 'gaijin', the shortened form of 'gaikokujin', is ok?

Unless the word 'Japanese' is racist of course...

Like I said previously, I don't like the use of the word 'Jap' but it does make me wonder how one can be fine and the other be a bad word

It's not a double standard, that's just the way language is. Of course different countries and different people treat different words differently, but I am just to my American ears, Jap is a term soaked in so much anti-Japanese sentiment, it cannot be anything other than derogatory. "gaijin" doesn't have that problem.

[MMM]

Originally Posted by Firebird

Well i will still write a little question in here.
I have got a T-shirt saying "Baka Gaijin" in Kanji (and there is a small translation saying "Stupid foreigner" underneath).
do you think i can wear that in Japan? Because i actually thought that people might find it funny. But i dont want to be offending or anything, so what do you think? Of course i wont wear it if im working or meeting older Japanese, but is it ok to wear it in the evenings, karaoke, or stuff?

Firebird

I wouldn't wear that t-shirt in Japan not because I would worry about offending someone. I wouldn't wear it because it will make you look like an idiot.

[MMM]

Originally Posted by hennaz

I do not think Japanese are racist, I just think they are xenophobic. That's different from being racist, because racism is the belief that some races are superior/inferior to others.

Did you just step off of a time machine from 1925. Things have changed a little over the last 70 years or so.

Originally Posted by hennaz

The Japanese are just not used to or qualified to help foreigners, because they are not so many foreigners in Japan at the moment, and because they are worried that foreigners would speak to them in something not in Japanese, and they won't know how to help them. Also note that very few Japanese can speak English (or any other language besides Japanese).

So I wonder how the millions of non-Japanese speaking tourists are able to function. How can such a backwards land host things like the Olympics and World Cup championships? Mind-boggling.

Originally Posted by hennaz

I personally don't like the word "gaijin" because it literally translates as "outsider", calling a foreign person an ousider to me sounds quite harsh. When I went to Japan last year I used the word "gaijin" to describe myself sometimes, but I still find (and have found) that word politically incorrect. If a Japanese called me a "gaijin", I would be quite offended.

Literally translate "sensei" (teacher) and it means "born before". Literally translate "beikoku" (USA) and it means "rice country". Literally translate "gaijin" foreigner and it means "outside person". Literally translate the English word "foreigner" and it means..."outside person".

But in practical use when people say "sensei" they aren't thinking "born before", when they talk about America they aren't thinking "rice country" and when they talk about "gaijin" they aren't thinking "outside person". So there isn't much use worrying about literal translations, but what people really mean.