what's bad in japan?

[Henbaka]

Originally Posted by Paul11

before the plow in a few societies women were respected because they brought in a majority of the calories among hunter and gatherers. Among agricultural societies women perform most of the drudge work including building houses, raising animals, cooking, farming, raising children and so on. while the men sit and watch for enemies, that usually don't come. in either case, women perform much more work than men. Only in very few hunter gatherer societies such as the San of the kalihari is there a realistic egalitarianism.

what you have to see in Japan is that women have a different type of power than men. there is what's called a division of labor between the sexes, where each has it's roles and responsibilities. Ever notice how women manage the money and give their husband's an allowance, which is rarely as much as they want, even though they earn it?

I don't believe it's a problem to have different types of power between sexes. The problem arises when a person are not allowed or has a harder time doing something because they are of the wrong sex.

[Paul11]

Originally Posted by Nyororin

One thing that always irritates me about the quoting of all these figures is that everyone always seems to apply them to their own society`s thinking.

What is to say that women WANT to be in these positions of power? What makes you assume that women WANT to work the same levels as men? I`m on the PTA at my son`s kindergarten, and I can assure you that there isn`t a working mother there that I`ve spoken to who wouldn`t JUMP at the chance to stop working and be a SAHM. I went to a 4 year university here - I can also assure you that 9 out of 10 (probably more, really) of my female classmates listed their life plans as "Work in the job of choice for a few years until a husband is found, then quit and be a stay at home wife!" Obviously, not every woman thinks like that. There are plenty of women who do want to continue working, and rise up in the company ranks... And more often than not, companies are *happy* to accommodate them because the company actually gets tax breaks etc from the government for it. But there aren`t that many women who agree to it.
Seriously, one of our family friends is a great skilled worker, enjoys work, but doesn`t want any responsibility - just cash. So when her employer offers to promote her, she refuses, and if they still promote her she changes jobs. She`s on her 6th or 7th.
As for paternal leave - traditionally a wife goes home to have a baby and stays there for the first couple of months. This also coincides with the time frame most husbands have to take their leave during. So most don`t, and either work overtime during that time (as the house it empty anyway) or do a "time save" and use that unused leave later on as part of another vacation - this time when the family is together (what we did.)

Applying western feminist ideals to Japan just doesn`t work.

Thank you Nyoryorin. As always poignant and level-headed.

[blimp]

the question is not whether or not they want to do it.
the question is whether or not they have, in reality, the same chance.

[TalnSG]

Originally Posted by Henbaka

Don't people in most places of the world take off their shoes when entering someones home? I would never just walk into someones house with my shoes on (Sweden). I mean, come on, how often can you walk outside, and not get your shoes atleast a little bit dirty/dusty/wet?

No, in most countries I have visited (all western hemisphere), you are not expected to remove your shoes unless, of course, you would be tracking in mud, slush or snow.

However, sometimes the reason is necessity, rather than merely custom. In Japanese homes (and one room of my own house) when there are tatami mats on the floor, shoes would quickly ruin them. You must not ever walk on them with any hard sole because it breaks the fiber.

Personally removing ones shoes is a custom I have appreciated ever since I noticed stilletto heels marring my hardwood floors.

[Paul11]

Originally Posted by blimp

the question is not whether or not they want to do it.
the question is whether or not they have, in reality, the same chance.

Your idea is understood. But it's very western and just as petrified. Think about how much more difficult it is in America now that women have fully entered the workplace. Families can hardly get by with one salary and a woman almost has to work even if she wants to stay home with child. If she does choose to do that she is looked down on by "professional" women. Women who work also do double shifts at home, or pay another person to raise their children. Women are now free to dress like men and are confused because they've been told you can have it all, but you can't. Every decision comes with a loss. They work on their career until their too old to find a good unmarried man or until it becomes difficult to bear children. then comes the hard feelings because they've denied their woman-hood and biology their whol lives and feel unfullfilled.

Not always so great either way. I'm tired of listening to western women in Japan knock Japanese women and all the "oppression."

[Henbaka]

Originally Posted by TalnSG

No, in most countries I have visited (all western hemisphere), you are not expected to remove your shoes unless, of course, you would be tracking in mud, slush or snow.

However, sometimes the reason is necessity, rather than merely custom. In Japanese homes (and one room of my own house) when there are tatami mats on the floor, shoes would quickly ruin them. You must not ever walk on them with any hard sole because it breaks the fiber.

Personally removing ones shoes is a custom I have appreciated ever since I noticed stilletto heels marring my hardwood floors.

Have you visited Sweden or any nordic countries? Just curious.

Yes, I guess maybe I wasn't clear. I'm not saying it's and old tradition or custom, but more common sense. You don't take off your shoes because wearing shoes inside offends the host, but because it dirties down the floor and destroys mats, etc.

Also I feel wearing shoes made for outside use inside is as natural as wearing your big jacket inside.

Originally Posted by blimp

the question is not whether or not they want to do it.
the question is whether or not they have, in reality, the same chance.

This is what I agree with. As long as the opportunity is there for a woman to e.g. rise in the corporate ranks if she wishes, then I don't care if 99.9% of Japans women stays at home with her kids (although that fact might tell us other things..)

[Nyororin]

Originally Posted by blimp

the question is not whether or not they want to do it.
the question is whether or not they have, in reality, the same chance.

You can say that about anything in the world, and any choice someone or a group of people makes. In the end, if they`re not choosing to do it to begin with, there is NO WAY to accurately measure their chances. And no way to ever get a decent estimate without letting your personal feelings seep in.

[Henbaka]

Originally Posted by Nyororin

You can say that about anything in the world, and any choice someone or a group of people makes. In the end, if they`re not choosing to do it to begin with, there is NO WAY to accurately measure their chances. And no way to ever get a decent estimate without letting your personal feelings seep in.

You can say that about (well, almost) anything. And you should. Now don't think I'm trying to proclaim something here, but don't you think that _SOMETIMES_ women won't 'choose' to do this or that, because they already know they can't?

Edit: Same goes for men, ofcourse.

[JoshAussie]

just thought id throw something uesless into this thread *throws in 2 canadian cents*

through all my schooling and all my female acquantences iv only ever met 1 girls that wanted to be a career woman.. her name was meagan and she wanted to be a lawyer and she was hot

like i said pretty useless BUT thats what the last few posts made me think about sexy meagan

[Henbaka]

Originally Posted by JoshAussie

just thought id throw something uesless into this thread *throws in 2 canadian cents*

through all my schooling and all my female acquantences iv only ever met 1 girls that wanted to be a career woman.. her name was meagan and she wanted to be a lawyer and she was hot

like i said pretty useless BUT thats what the last few posts made me think about sexy meagan

How odd... I rarely meet a girl who doesn't want to have some sort of career.