Salaryman life

[cridgit001]

The whole "salary man" thing just sounds depressing. I would suggest another name but I can't think of any.

[godwine]

Originally Posted by cridgit001

The whole "salary man" thing just sounds depressing. I would suggest another name but I can't think of any.

Lets have a separate thread to talk about the working culture and life in Japan Maybe MMM can give some suggestions on how to clear up some myths and popular beliefs

Done
-MMM

[MMM]

Well, in some ways the salaryman life IS depressing. People were willing to give up a lot of time for work knowing that 1) they would be employed for life and 2) they would be well compensated.

Sadly, both those guarantees are crumbling, despite the tradition that working late into the night still goes on in many companies.

Being salaried means you are not paid by the hour, so you do not get paid for overtime.

[BakaCrisis]

Salarymen are my heroes.

[Nyororin]

Originally Posted by MMM

Being salaried means you are not paid by the hour, so you do not get paid for overtime.

WHOA... That is NOT correct.

Salaried means that you are paid a flat fee for the month, regardless of how many days of actual work there are, no reductions for holidays, etc. You receive a guaranteed amount of pay for the month even if there is a huge holiday break, etc.
Overtime is something completely different, and it IS paid. In the work contract, you generally agree to 8 hours of work each day for the salary. Anything above that is not included in the contract, and therefore must be dealt with outside of the salary... In other words, paid by hour.

Occasionally, some company will slip in "service overtime" into their contract, or try to do a loophole by not defining things properly in their contract - but that`s actually illegal these days.

My husband is a "salary man" and I assure you, he is paid very well for overtime - not to mention increases in his bonus if he does well.

[godwine]

Originally Posted by Nyororin

WHOA... That is NOT correct.

Salaried means that you are paid a flat fee for the month, regardless of how many days of actual work there are, no reductions for holidays, etc. You receive a guaranteed amount of pay for the month even if there is a huge holiday break, etc.
Overtime is something completely different, and it IS paid. In the work contract, you generally agree to 8 hours of work each day for the salary. Anything above that is not included in the contract, and therefore must be dealt with outside of the salary... In other words, paid by hour.

Occasionally, some company will slip in "service overtime" into their contract, or try to do a loophole by not defining things properly in their contract - but that`s actually illegal these days.

My husband is a "salary man" and I assure you, he is paid very well for overtime - not to mention increases in his bonus if he does well.

Few comments. First, in regard to the above. I guess OT pay IS available in SOME jobs. But not all. My cousin works for a small advertisement company with no OT pay. Back in 2006, I arrived at his place around 1AM, he isn't home yet, he got home around 2 AM, and left for work again at 5:30AM. All that without any OT pay. He is a senior executive for the firm himself

As for the crumbling tradition. I may be wrong, but I think what crumbled isn't the tradition of working long hours, but the tradition of Long Hours = Life Long Job and good Compensation. Its just a fact today given the crazy economic situation globally.....

[blimp]

Originally Posted by godwine

Few comments. First, in regard to the above. I guess OT pay IS available in SOME jobs. But not all. My cousin works for a small advertisement company with no OT pay. Back in 2006, I arrived at his place around 1AM, he isn't home yet, he got home around 2 AM, and left for work again at 5:30AM. All that without any OT pay. He is a senior executive for the firm himself

As for the crumbling tradition. I may be wrong, but I think what crumbled isn't the tradition of working long hours, but the tradition of Long Hours = Life Long Job and good Compensation. Its just a fact today given the crazy economic situation globally.....

the word to put emphasis on here is "executive". companies have the right not to pay managers for overtime. so what is a manager? apparently McDonalds Japan had a somewhat different opinion from the courts here in japan since they were made to pay damages and overtime pay (or was it only overtime pay?) to employees that were hired as managers while not having the tasks of a manager and certainly not paid a manager's salary. overtime payment for non-managers is protected by law in japan (there might be exceptions for small companies, nyororin, pls fill in if u know, or anyone else for that matter)

i have friends that work long hours and i have friends that work more or less exactly eight hours a day. myself, i work on average about 9h a day, about the same as i worked before coming to japan

[MMM]

Obviously different people have different situations.

As a public school teacher, I was a salaried employee and was encouraged to go home at a certain time each day. Some of my colleagues grumbled when asked to take over certain club duties. The reason was it would add 1 to 3 hours to their average work day, with no increase in pay.

Let's also keep in mind that a salaryman's long day isn't always in the office. One real estate man I know spends 9 out of 10 days off golfing with his co-workers. He doesn't always want to, but it is basically a required function in his office. In winter they play in Kyushu. He has to pay for the bullet train, and the company only covers a bit of the hotel and club fees.

In some companies the boss or managers like to socialize with staff after work, sometimes with dinner, then barhopping. This can lead to long and late nights off the clock, but not being able to go home.

[cridgit001]

That's a drag. I hate being stuck somewhere and not able to leave. Happen's alot when I don't drive myself. I feel stranded.

If you had to guess, what percentage of Japan's work-force is considered "salary man"?

[Nyororin]

As it is illegal to not pay for overtime - it can only be done if the employee volunteers to do so.

So, no matter the level of pressure, etc - in the end, they could indeed opt to not volunteer to do so, and look around for another work place that doesn`t push them to break the law. If they are whining about having to work without pay - in the end, it is their own choice.