I don't want to live in Japan.

[SSJup81]

Originally Posted by burkhartdesu

I used to be one to blindly say things like "I hate America", but nobody knows their culture until they've been removed from it.

I feel that any person who says this in general are young and naive. Even though I've never lived anyplace outside of the US, I do appreciate the country, even if I don't agree with everything about it, like say some government choices and such or how we don't seem to promote things like globalization as much as we should (just my opinion), but I wouldn't trade this place for anything else. I may want to live in Japan, but I could never see me actually wanting to become a citizen there.

IMO, anyone who says that he/she hates the US, should be shipped to a place like Israel or Iraq or Rwanda, etc., to see just how good they have it here in the US.

[Obscurum]

most of you screaming "I'm gonna live in Japan and go to Manga cons" or what ever are morons or kids who haven't neither got out of their own country/state. living in a country that doesn't share the same language, culture etc. is hard especially if you really aint that rich to begin with. i would love to live in Japan that i have in my dreams, but then reality kicks in like a mule and you get screwed. i haven't visited Japan yet, i will when i have time to spare and money to spend, but even that wont be enough for me to truly see what Japan is under the "skin".

[swiftwind]

Wow. What a great thread. I really enjoyed reading it.

I agree that many people want to move to Japan for the wrong reasons. For Example:

1. Manga/Anime - I don't really have to explain this one but lets just say...many people on this forum have some manga or anime icon. I'm sure not all of them are anime/manga freaks, but its the first thing I look for when reading posts here. People have no idea what type of personality they're going to deal with but they think they do because they watch Japanese TV. I don't want to generalize but...

2. Japanese/Asian Fever - We all know what I'm talking about. People want to have Japanese girlfriends/boyfriends, they don't care what kind of personality they have as long as they're asian at least if not Japanese(Again, look at member icons...it may or may not tell you about their motives for wanting to move). One guy actually told me he just wanted an asian wife to take care of him. I wanted to beat him to the ground really badly.

3. Using Japan as a crutch - Many people who want to move to Japan want to move because they're unhappy with their current lifestyle. It may be because they have little or no friends, or not happy with their jobs, or being single. To those people I say - you have how many states in the US? have you ever bothered to travel domestically? Do you know what you're missing out on? who knows, maybe its you that needs to change and not the place you live in.


Now I want to list things you might want to think twice about before you say "I want to live in Japan". Keep in mind my wife is Japanese but I only visited Japan twice. However, I have heard this from people who do live in Japan or have experienced this myself:

1. Discrimination - Its EVERYWHERE. You will always be considered an outsider. I remember people avoiding me everywhere. At the grocery stores its usually crowded but people always moved away from me. People walking their dogs would take alternate routes. When you cross the street, people will keep their distance from you (in non-tourist areas anyway). If people want/have to talk to you about something, they will always approach you in english. They always assume you're a tourist, even if you've lived there all your life. I heard in some communities children of mixed couples get bullied or picked on a lot. If you're lucky and the school is a little more modern, people will accept your child. It DOESNT matter if you're not white. If you're not Japanese, you WILL be discriminated against and you will have to live with it as long as you live there.

2. Food - If you're not open minded to new or strange (and boy do I mean strange) types of food, you can forget about living here. If you think you can live on subway and Mcdonalds while you're here, then you're out of your mind. If you can't eat local food, why bother living in Japan?

3. Physical stamina - This may sound strange to people who come from Japan, but a lot of people in the US don't get much of a workout throughout the day and usually drive or take a bus/train to where they need to go. You will be very sore after your first month in Japan (Trust me, I know this firsthand). Also, in the summer it gets very hot with 100% humidity. This means that you'll walk outside and be soaking wet a minute later. If you come from a cold place or a place without hot summers, then you might not be ready for this.

4. Mental Stress - You will be working very very very late, and you may not always be able to speak up in your company. you must follow everyone else, and you might have to take the fall/blame for things that may not be your fault. This means you must do your job, do it well, and never complain. Unemployment looks VERY bad on your resume. a lot of places won't hire you if you had any history of unemployment. So whatever you do, do not risk your job.

5. Language - Be prepared to study your ass off. This isn't something you can do an hour a day. This is something you have to be doing 24/7 to be able to reach a fluency level of a native. Keep in mind there are thousands of Kanji characters and that natives have to learn it from the first grade all the way through high school. Yes, its that hard. If you're serious about moving to Japan, you must be prepared to study like there's no tomorrow. Most places won't accept anyone less than JLPT1.

6. Commitment - The amount of work and time you need to put into learning the language, understanding the culture, eating the food, and knowing how to live in japan is going to be a lifetime experience. Be sure you know what you're up against. This is a totally different world, and your rules or ideals on how people do things will not apply here. You'll have to be open minded and start from the ground up.

There's a lot more I want to write but this post is getting very long. I'll make another post in the near future about why people would want to live there if they can handle all of the above.

[samurai007]

Originally Posted by swiftwind

Wow. What a great thread. I really enjoyed reading it.

I agree that many people want to move to Japan for the wrong reasons. For Example:

1. Manga/Anime - I don't really have to explain this one but lets just say...many people on this forum have some manga or anime icon. I'm sure not all of them are anime/manga freaks, but its the first thing I look for when reading posts here. People have no idea what type of personality they're going to deal with but they think they do because they watch Japanese TV. I don't want to generalize but...

2. Japanese/Asian Fever - We all know what I'm talking about. People want to have Japanese girlfriends/boyfriends, they don't care what kind of personality they have as long as they're asian at least if not Japanese(Again, look at member icons...it may or may not tell you about their motives for wanting to move). One guy actually told me he just wanted an asian wife to take care of him. I wanted to beat him to the ground really badly.

3. Using Japan as a crutch - Many people who want to move to Japan want to move because they're unhappy with their current lifestyle. It may be because they have little or no friends, or not happy with their jobs, or being single. To those people I say - you have how many states in the US? have you ever bothered to travel domestically? Do you know what you're missing out on? who knows, maybe its you that needs to change and not the place you live in.


Now I want to list things you might want to think twice about before you say "I want to live in Japan". Keep in mind my wife is Japanese but I only visited Japan twice. However, I have heard this from people who do live in Japan or have experienced this myself:

1. Discrimination - Its EVERYWHERE. You will always be considered an outsider. I remember people avoiding me everywhere. At the grocery stores its usually crowded but people always moved away from me. People walking their dogs would take alternate routes. When you cross the street, people will keep their distance from you (in non-tourist areas anyway). If people want/have to talk to you about something, they will always approach you in english. They always assume you're a tourist, even if you've lived there all your life. I heard in some communities children of mixed couples get bullied or picked on a lot. If you're lucky and the school is a little more modern, people will accept your child. It DOESNT matter if you're not white. If you're not Japanese, you WILL be discriminated against and you will have to live with it as long as you live there.

2. Food - If you're not open minded to new or strange (and boy do I mean strange) types of food, you can forget about living here. If you think you can live on subway and Mcdonalds while you're here, then you're out of your mind. If you can't eat local food, why bother living in Japan?

3. Physical stamina - This may sound strange to people who come from Japan, but a lot of people in the US don't get much of a workout throughout the day and usually drive or take a bus/train to where they need to go. You will be very sore after your first month in Japan (Trust me, I know this firsthand). Also, in the summer it gets very hot with 100% humidity. This means that you'll walk outside and be soaking wet a minute later. If you come from a cold place or a place without hot summers, then you might not be ready for this.

4. Mental Stress - You will be working very very very late, and you may not always be able to speak up in your company. you must follow everyone else, and you might have to take the fall/blame for things that may not be your fault. This means you must do your job, do it well, and never complain. Unemployment looks VERY bad on your resume. a lot of places won't hire you if you had any history of unemployment. So whatever you do, do not risk your job.

5. Language - Be prepared to study your ass off. This isn't something you can do an hour a day. This is something you have to be doing 24/7 to be able to reach a fluency level of a native. Keep in mind there are thousands of Kanji characters and that natives have to learn it from the first grade all the way through high school. Yes, its that hard. If you're serious about moving to Japan, you must be prepared to study like there's no tomorrow. Most places won't accept anyone less than JLPT1.

6. Commitment - The amount of work and time you need to put into learning the language, understanding the culture, eating the food, and knowing how to live in japan is going to be a lifetime experience. Be sure you know what you're up against. This is a totally different world, and your rules or ideals on how people do things will not apply here. You'll have to be open minded and start from the ground up.

There's a lot more I want to write but this post is getting very long. I'll make another post in the near future about why people would want to live there if they can handle all of the above.

In the interest of fairness, I thought I'd respond to these points:

1) While I did experience a little discrimination (most notably when I was trying to find a new apartment), the vast majority of Japanese people were incredibly kind, welcoming, and friendly. I was never refused service at a business, restaurant, hotel, or onsen. (Though when I visited Dogo Onsen everyone stopped and stared for a moment to see what I'd do, like a cowboy entering a wild west saloon. As soon as I made a beeline for the showers instead of just getting in, they went back to what they were doing. One of the guys struck up a conversation with me and admitted they were worried I didn't know the proper etiquette of showering first, that's all.) I think the discrimination is over-hyped, and the generousity and kindness not stated often enough. You may be an outsider to the society, but you won't usually be mistreated because of it, and many Japanese will see it as their duty to help you out or assist you when you need help because of it.

2) While there are some craaaazy foods in Japan (I tried many of them), you can also live on Japanese food that is not very strange or different at all. Kara'age is just a kind of fried chicken, tonkatsu is pork cutlet, and gyudon is just sliced beef and onions over rice. Westerners who know the pathetic excuse for ramen that we have over here will be very pleasantly surprised by the real stuff in Japan. And you can get steak or shrimp or every kind of Chinese food you could want. So you won't need to live on sashimi and natto, there are lots of other choices, and many of them will be fairly familiar.

3) True, with all the hiking and biking, I was never in better shape than when I was in Japan. I've really let myself go in the 10 years since...

4) Also true, and the mental stress builds up. What doesn't bother you at all in the beginning can eventually become a real aggravation.

5) It depends upon how long you are staying, and what your goals and interests are. I knew I was only staying a couple years, and I didn't know any Japanese before I went, so I didn't have any foundation to build on. What's more, as an English teacher, I always encouraged my students to practice their English with me, not use them as a chance to practice my Japanese. I therefor decided that while I would trade English for Japanese lessons once a week, and try to pick up the words and phrases that would help me day to day, I had no intention of spending all my time studying for fluency. Instead, I spent my time seeing the country, taking short trips nearly every weekend, helping the local interpreter and guide club, going on homestays and to many AJET events, etc. That was far more important and a better way to spend my time over there than learning kanji, IMO. And while some JETs studied the language for the JLPTs, other JETs like me found other interests and ways to spend our time that was still uniquely Japanese... one leaned to play the koto, another studied aikido, etc.

6) Very true... you need perseverance, a sense of humor, adaptability, and a willingness to "go with the flow" to make it in a very foreign culture like Japan.

[Koir]

Points and counterpoints like swiftwind's and samurai007's posts are just a couple of the reasons why a place like Japan Forum exists, and what it is capable of providing.

Good work.

[Animewatcher]

Thanks MMM for this thread. It has been very informative. I am researching all I can about Japan and this has been one of the best threads yet. I would like to hear from people that lived in Japan to describe some of their day to day lives. I really enjoyed the little things like: drying clothes in the living room because it was raining outside, etc. Too many threads only scratch the surface and this one really digs in deep to describe the "little" things that go on everyday, good or bad. So my thanks to all who have shared their experiences and to those who will.

[samurai007]

Originally Posted by Animewatcher

Thanks MMM for this thread. It has been very informative. I am researching all I can about Japan and this has been one of the best threads yet. I would like to hear from people that lived in Japan to describe some of their day to day lives. I really enjoyed the little things like: drying clothes in the living room because it was raining outside, etc. Too many threads only scratch the surface and this one really digs in deep to describe the "little" things that go on everyday, good or bad. So my thanks to all who have shared their experiences and to those who will.

Hmmm, ok, ordinary day.

Get up in the morning, eat a breakfast of cereal with milk, shower, get dressed, and all that.

Walk to the school I taught at (was about 5 minutes away by cutting through the cemetery), get into the teacher's office, check my daily schedule and see who I'm supposed to be team-teaching with today.

Try to talk to each of the JTEs I'm to teach with, make sure the classes are still on. This is definitely not a given, as practically every day at least 1 class will be dropped or another added, or both.

Team teach about 3-4 classes during a typical day, rest of the time making lesson plans, talking to people, playing volleyball with the kids, reading, etc.

At lunch time, walk down to the restaurants near the train station (about 10 minutes walk from the school), pick one to eat lunch at (Sankakutei was my favorite place, best kara'age!). If there was time on the way back to school after lunch, stop at the local bookstore and see what new manga has arrived this week.

Teach in the afternoon, etc. Stay at school until about 4:00 or 4:30 typically.

Walk home, freshen up, maybe eat a snack.

If I need to go shopping or return some movies to the video store, head out on my bike. The video store and shopping area are at least 15 minutes away by bike, longer coming back because then I have to ride uphill.

Cook dinner for myself, often a quick stirfry or scrambled eggs or something else that's quick and easy to make on a stovetop. I prefer cooking fresh food, not tv dinners. I eat dinner at home 90% of the time to save money and because I eat out for lunch every day, and I want something different at dinner.

Kick back and watch the NHK news in English, maybe Sumo if it's on, or put in a video. I also listen to music a lot, and read books or draw.

Go to sleep about 11 or 12 PM.

On weekends I usually spend 1 day traveling or doing something fun, and the other day doing laundry, cleaning the apartment, etc.

[Nyororin]

Originally Posted by swiftwind

Wow. What a great thread. I really enjoyed reading it.

I agree that many people want to move to Japan for the wrong reasons. For Example: (cut)

While I agree with what you have to say about the mistaken reasons people are citing for wanting to move to Japan, I am going to have to disagree with a lot of the negative issues you have with Japan... A lot of it is simply recycling the same stereotypical misconceptions and the like.

1. Discrimination - Its EVERYWHERE. You will always be considered an outsider. I remember people avoiding me everywhere. At the grocery stores its usually crowded but people always moved away from me. People walking their dogs would take alternate routes. When you cross the street, people will keep their distance from you (in non-tourist areas anyway). If people want/have to talk to you about something, they will always approach you in english. They always assume you're a tourist, even if you've lived there all your life. I heard in some communities children of mixed couples get bullied or picked on a lot. If you're lucky and the school is a little more modern, people will accept your child. It DOESNT matter if you're not white. If you're not Japanese, you WILL be discriminated against and you will have to live with it as long as you live there.

I don`t know what you were doing to receive such reactions, but I`ve lived here over 10 years now and have never encountered any serious discrimination. People unsure whether I could speak Japanese? Yes. But crossing the street to avoid me? Running away in the grocery store? Taking their dogs on different routes to avoid me? I think not. My son is mixed race and the worst that happens is constant praise of being "cute".

2. Food - If you're not open minded to new or strange (and boy do I mean strange) types of food, you can forget about living here. If you think you can live on subway and Mcdonalds while you're here, then you're out of your mind. If you can't eat local food, why bother living in Japan?

90% of Japanese food is not strange at all. Home style meals are downright boring.

3. Physical stamina (cut)

No complaints with this one. If you get tired walking up the stairs in your house, you`re going to die rushing up 3 stories worth to get out of the subway.

4. Mental Stress - You will be working very very very late, and you may not always be able to speak up in your company. you must follow everyone else, and you might have to take the fall/blame for things that may not be your fault. This means you must do your job, do it well, and never complain. Unemployment looks VERY bad on your resume. a lot of places won't hire you if you had any history of unemployment. So whatever you do, do not risk your job.

This all depends on your company. Not everyone works 18 hours a day, nor is every company some horrific prison of pressure and conformity.
As for sometimes taking the blame even if it`s not your fault - that is a feature of any job the world over.

5. Language

I don`t think the issue is so much that Japanese is hard to learn, but more that you do need to learn it. There are very few locations where you can get by with English.

[Nyororin]

Originally Posted by Animewatcher

I would like to hear from people that lived in Japan to describe some of their day to day lives. I really enjoyed the little things like: drying clothes in the living room because it was raining outside, etc. Too many threads only scratch the surface and this one really digs in deep to describe the "little" things that go on everyday, good or bad. So my thanks to all who have shared their experiences and to those who will.

I`ll give you my entire day yesterday. :P

Wake up to my husband`s alarm at 7:40 AM. Check the weather on my cell phone while still in bed. Get up and start boiling water while scooping the cat`s litter box. Clean up after that then start making my husband`s lunch with the rice I set to be ready at 7:30, leftovers from the night before, and some fresh soup.

See him off to work then drag my son out of bed at 8:15. Force him to eat breakfast, help him get changed into his kindergarten uniform, put everything necessary in his bag... and then wait outside until the kindergarten bus comes and see him off at 9.

Come back inside and find something to eat - yesterday was a pack of strawberries. Note the great weather, and open all the windows. Throw laundry in the machine and stick the hose in the bathtub to use the old bath water - and launder. Check my mail, the net, waste time, etc. When the laundry is done hang it on the pole outside and then go back to sleep (10:30) Get back up at 1pm, have something to drink, then head out to the book store. Waste time there, making sure I`m back home by 3.

At 3:30, get ready and head outside to wait for my son`s bus to bring him home. Make him a snack, get him changed out of his uniform, and waste some more time online while he eats and plays. Put the laundry in, then look into what we`ll be having for dinner. Find nothing decent, so get ready and head to the grocery store with my son. Buy meat and fish, as we have crap loads of vegetables but nothing else. At 6, set the bath to be ready at 8, and start making dinner. At my son`s request, I make some heavy-on-ingredients ochazuke (fresh fish, diced vegetables, etc) with the last of the rice for him, and make myself some smoked salmon and raw scallop salad with the nice big sweet onions I bought.

Get my son`s stuff ready for the following morning, waste more time, then get in the bath with him at 8. And once out of the bath, put him to bed. Spend more time doing... something or other that I can`t remember. My husband called at 11 and asked me to ready his suitcase for his business trip the following day (Working late to get ready for the trip.) I drag the suitcase out and pack stuff for him. Play games and mess around on the net until he gets home at 12. Make plum pasta, soup, salad, and meat in tomato sauce for him while he takes a bath. Enjoy the rest of the night until around 3 when we go to bed.

Yesterday was a boring day.

[Animewatcher]

Thanks samurai007 and Nyororin . These are great. It made me think of something I've noticed on many threads. Recycling seems to be a growing concept in Japan. How hard core are people in Japan about taking care of their environment? I live in a place that is not by any means recycling friendly. So, is it easy to recycle there?