New ID cards for foriegn citizens...

[smbx33]

Originally Posted by MMM

A fingerprint or retina is not DNA. I am not aware of a government program to ID people by DNA, but if that exists, let me know.

How is "divulging" your fingerprint giving up your rights? If you aren't doing anything illegal, then what is there to be upset about? Your retina or fingerprint has no inherent value, so if sharing it ensures there are no, for example, terrorists on the plane I am about to fly it, then they have all the retina scans and fingerprints they want.

The way I see it implementing everyone into the database with fingerprints, retina would be an improvement to the government and people would be so afraid of getting caught that crime would decrease by ALOT then again the only people I see against this are people who rather have privacy than security and criminals

As for holding DNA:

Within a year, the United Arab Emirates will become the first country to begin building a national DNA database of all residents, the Abu Dhabi-based National newspaper reported Oct 7.

[ozkai]

I have to say that when I first obtained my card by visitng the local ward office and being figerprinted, I did find it ratjher intimidating as besides the wording "alien", we were taght in Australia from a young age that crminals are fingerprinted. I find it sad that they still feel the need to make it compulsory for foreigners to hold the card.

[Nyororin]

Originally Posted by ozkai

I have to say that when I first obtained my card by visitng the local ward office and being figerprinted, I did find it ratjher intimidating as besides the wording "alien", we were taght in Australia from a young age that crminals are fingerprinted. I find it sad that they still feel the need to make it compulsory for foreigners to hold the card.

Currently, you are not required to register your fingerprints for the card. They got rid of that about 10 years ago.
You do have to be fingerprinted when entering the country though - that`s been in effect for... 3 years now? Maybe 4? I haven`t been out of the country since that law was passed, so have never had my fingerprints taken.

[hippykiller1]

Maybe I'll pass on trying to work in Japan. Find someplace less Orwellian.

[hippykiller1]

Originally Posted by spicytuna

Just wait until they implant one in the back of your head. It'd make a great Youtube video.

I'd shove a 12 gauge down their throat and dare them.

[atheistwithfaith]

Originally Posted by MMM

A fingerprint or retina is not DNA. I am not aware of a government program to ID people by DNA, but if that exists, let me know.

How is "divulging" your fingerprint giving up your rights? If you aren't doing anything illegal, then what is there to be upset about? Your retina or fingerprint has no inherent value, so if sharing it ensures there are no, for example, terrorists on the plane I am about to fly it, then they have all the retina scans and fingerprints they want.

I don't live in fear of terrorist attacks though, and if someone wants to blow up a plane then it will be easy for a terrorist group to find someone not on the government terrorist database - the difficult part is getting a bomb onboard. Having your retina / fingerprint will make no difference surely.

Apart from on the occasion of immigration / emmigration there is no reason to take that information and even then it should be destroyed upon returning to your home country. I understand its important for government to be able to count people entering and leaving the country and to ensure that those people who enter leave when they are supposed to but in 99% (perhaps 100%) of situations it will be of no benefit to me or anyone else having my fingerprint or retina. I am still just as likely to be a victim of crime whether everyone has their fingerprint / retina / DNA on a database / ID card or not.

I should add that I am not vehrmently opposed to having that information in an alien card when I visit Japan but I am opposed to the rolling out of such forms of data gathering when a government applies it to its whole population.

[jesselt]

Originally Posted by hippykiller1

Maybe I'll pass on trying to work in Japan. Find someplace less Orwellian.

Your definition of Orwellian is so ridiculous that the only places left for you are a hand full of third world countries.

[MMM]

Originally Posted by atheistwithfaith

I don't live in fear of terrorist attacks though, and if someone wants to blow up a plane then it will be easy for a terrorist group to find someone not on the government terrorist database - the difficult part is getting a bomb onboard. Having your retina / fingerprint will make no difference surely.

Apart from on the occasion of immigration / emmigration there is no reason to take that information and even then it should be destroyed upon returning to your home country. I understand its important for government to be able to count people entering and leaving the country and to ensure that those people who enter leave when they are supposed to but in 99% (perhaps 100%) of situations it will be of no benefit to me or anyone else having my fingerprint or retina. I am still just as likely to be a victim of crime whether everyone has their fingerprint / retina / DNA on a database / ID card or not.

I should add that I am not vehrmently opposed to having that information in an alien card when I visit Japan but I am opposed to the rolling out of such forms of data gathering when a government applies it to its whole population.

Visitors are not required to have alien registration cards. Non-Japanese residents are.

Why are you opposed to such forms of data gathering when it applies to a whole population?

[smbx33]

Originally Posted by atheistwithfaith

I don't live in fear of terrorist attacks though, and if someone wants to blow up a plane then it will be easy for a terrorist group to find someone not on the government terrorist database - the difficult part is getting a bomb onboard. Having your retina / fingerprint will make no difference surely.

Apart from on the occasion of immigration / emmigration there is no reason to take that information and even then it should be destroyed upon returning to your home country. I understand its important for government to be able to count people entering and leaving the country and to ensure that those people who enter leave when they are supposed to but in 99% (perhaps 100%) of situations it will be of no benefit to me or anyone else having my fingerprint or retina. I am still just as likely to be a victim of crime whether everyone has their fingerprint / retina / DNA on a database / ID card or not.

I should add that I am not vehrmently opposed to having that information in an alien card when I visit Japan but I am opposed to the rolling out of such forms of data gathering when a government applies it to its whole population.

When you visit japan you get fingerprinted at the airport since a gaijin card is only for residents. How are you so sure that people will commit crimes regardless of the government having dna?? Did you know that there a lot of open cases that JUST have dna as evidence and because they aren't convicted criminals yet, they are free to commit any other future crimes.

If don't care about the damage that has been done to us by terrorist, I hope you don't call yourself American. I for example lost some friends and a family member in the 9/11 attack, I love it if we took measures to prevent it. Even if it decreases chances by 1%.

Future holds retina and fingerprint identification, whether you like it or not.

(My guess:
In the future you will get off an aircraft and upon exit to the landing hall you will hear the tanoy announce that you should remove any sunglasses or any item covering your eyes. From over 800 yards away a multiple scan will be in progress and it will be flicking through each traveller in recognition of their Citizenship. All unrecognised travellers will be funnelled into numbered channels for country verification and status checks. Anyone travelling on a non chip compatible passport will be refused entry. )

Originally Posted by MMM

Visitors are not required to have alien registration cards. Non-Japanese residents are.

Why are you opposed to such forms of data gathering when it applies to a whole population?

Some people fail to see that its for a greater cause, and instead of looking into the possitive effects they stick to the small things like:

"OMFGZ invasion of privacy" "
"no waii I haven't done nothing wrong!!!"
"Thats for criminals"
"OMFG my forefathers left me rights!!!"
"Its violating my constitutional rights"

I find people who think that their country's laws apply to wherever they are traveling, very ignorant.

[atheistwithfaith]

Originally Posted by smbx33

When you visit japan you get fingerprinted at the airport since a gaijin card is only for residents. How are you so sure that people will commit crimes regardless of the government having dna?? Did you know that there a lot of open cases that JUST have dna as evidence and because they aren't convicted criminals yet, they are free to commit any other future crimes.

If don't care about the damage that has been done to us by terrorist, I hope you don't call yourself American. I for example lost some friends and a family member in the 9/11 attack, I love it if we took measures to prevent it. Even if it decreases chances by 1%.

Future holds retina and fingerprint identification, whether you like it or not.

(My guess:
In the future you will get off an aircraft and upon exit to the landing hall you will hear the tanoy announce that you should remove any sunglasses or any item covering your eyes. From over 800 yards away a multiple scan will be in progress and it will be flicking through each traveller in recognition of their Citizenship. All unrecognised travellers will be funnelled into numbered channels for country verification and status checks. Anyone travelling on a non chip compatible passport will be refused entry. )



Some people fail to see that its for a greater cause, and instead of looking into the possitive effects they stick to the small things like:

"OMFGZ invasion of privacy" "
"no waii I haven't done nothing wrong!!!"
"Thats for criminals"
"OMFG my forefathers left me rights!!!"
"Its violating my constitutional rights"

I find people who think that their country's laws apply to wherever they are traveling, very ignorant.

How are you so sure HAVING a DNA database will prevent crimes? I see no reason why a criminal will not commit a crime just because he knows his DNA is on file - repeat offending is extremely common yet those criminals have their fingerprints and sometimes DNA taken after their first offense yet it never stops them.
You are again trying to use fear as a reason to take these measures into place but didn't address the fact that you have to actually know everyone on that planes intentions to know if they are going to hijack it. Your fingerprint does not give away any information about whether you are a terrorist. You are right about not calling myself an American, I don't.

When I am in another country, as much as I may fleetingly begrudge being treated with indignance on entering another country and having to give my fingerprint and retina I accept that "them's the breaks". However, in my own country where I am a citizen I should be allowed to go out my own business without being criminalized. Unless of course I commit a crime, but that's not what I am arguing.

It is worrying that you think rights and privacy are 'small things', clearly the system has broke you down.