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RickOShay (Offline)
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02-25-2010, 08:48 AM

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Originally Posted by Nyororin View Post
The checking under the car, etc, isn`t a silly rule - nor are any of the others. They don`t test on just what you`d do on a normal day hopping in your car - they test for a series of different circumstances to see if you know how to handle them. Not just an average day. I`ll restate the same thing here as I always say when the topic of the test being silly - If you can`t be bothered to go through the motions when you know you have to and are being tested on them... Who knows what you won`t bother to do when you`re not being tested.

You check the car so that they can see that you know how to do a basic check of your tires and lights, and then a basic engine check of oil and the like. If you don`t know how to do such a basic test, the thinking is that you wouldn`t know how to do basic care of your car and are not ready for a license.
Well I think this is kind of illogical. If part of having a drivers license is knowing everything about your car, then there should be a complete separate test for those things. A driving test is not a car maintenance test. It seems quite silly to me to throw such a thing in on a "driving" test. If car maintenance is such an issue then it needs to be giving separate special attention, not a half-assed strange check under your car that really has nothing to do with driving skill, but failing to do, will not allow you to have a "drivers" license. Therefore I still say it is silly.
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Tsuwabuki (Offline)
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02-25-2010, 08:52 AM

I did not have to look under the car. I did have to walk around the car and look for obstructions, which is silly if you have been waiting in line for half an hour and have seen the car go around in circles several times. You can be pretty sure there are no imaginary obstructions. BUT... it's Japan.

So, part if it is doing everything you normally do, but doing in grandiose, over dramatic, look at me I'm a terrible actor way. When I checked mirrors and my blind spots, I looked worse than when I played MacBeth as a ninth grader. Anyone with half a brain should have noted that I was being positively ridiculous in a way no one would do in real life, and would probably be MORE distracting to a driver.

But... it's Japan. Often the appearance of correct is more important than the reality of correct.


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02-25-2010, 08:56 AM

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Originally Posted by Tsuwabuki View Post
But... it's Japan.
A phrase I have said more times than I can count.

Don't fight it.

Just do it.
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02-25-2010, 09:00 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by RickOShay View Post
Well I think this is kind of illogical. If part of having a drivers license is knowing everything about your car, then there should be a complete separate test for those things. A driving test is not a car maintenance test. It seems quite silly to me to throw such a thing in on a "driving" test. If car maintenance is such an issue then it needs to be giving separate special attention, not a half-assed strange check under your car that really has nothing to do with driving skill, but failing to do, will not allow you to have a "drivers" license. Therefore I still say it is silly.
You don`t consider checking if your tires are flat a part of normal common sense knowledge? Because that is what they have you check. You walk around the car and check the tires, and then glance down to make sure there isn`t a kid or something just where you can`t see them. You`re not checking under the car, but the tires and to see if there is something/someone just out of your view while in the car.

It isn`t like they make you change a tire, change your oil, etc etc. I checked my oil and washer fluid in the driving school test because it was part of what they teach you to do at the driving school, but didn`t do it at the real test because it isn`t part of it. Still I don`t see how this is such a strange thing to know how to do...?

Is taking a glance at the tires to see if they`re flat or have anything stabbed into them all that weird? I would really hate to drive off and then notice that one is flat...
That is what a test is - to check your knowledge of what to do in a situation. They want to see if you know how to do the common sense sight check that should become second nature if you`re driving. It`s not safe to drive around with a flat or to pull out without taking a glance to see if there is a kid sitting down behind your back bumper.


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Tsuwabuki (Offline)
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02-25-2010, 09:45 AM

MMM, indeed. It either becomes mantra for coping, or the reason you leave.

Now, I am no cultural relativist. I am not afraid to say clearly when I think a Japanese way of doing something is cockamamy crazy. But I can rant about it and still be productive because of my knowledge that... it's Japan.


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No License Yet (But Want A Car) - 02-25-2010, 10:27 AM

May be moving out to Fukui soon from Osaka. And dropped by the Nissan dealership today.

I definately am saving up for the new 2010 Nissan Fuga 370GT (VIP model).

worth drooling over and costs 500 man yen.

Goal is to buy it in 2011


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02-25-2010, 01:30 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nyororin View Post
You don`t consider checking if your tires are flat a part of normal common sense knowledge? Because that is what they have you check. You walk around the car and check the tires, and then glance down to make sure there isn`t a kid or something just where you can`t see them. You`re not checking under the car, but the tires and to see if there is something/someone just out of your view while in the car.

It isn`t like they make you change a tire, change your oil, etc etc. I checked my oil and washer fluid in the driving school test because it was part of what they teach you to do at the driving school, but didn`t do it at the real test because it isn`t part of it. Still I don`t see how this is such a strange thing to know how to do...?

Is taking a glance at the tires to see if they`re flat or have anything stabbed into them all that weird? I would really hate to drive off and then notice that one is flat...
That is what a test is - to check your knowledge of what to do in a situation. They want to see if you know how to do the common sense sight check that should become second nature if you`re driving. It`s not safe to drive around with a flat or to pull out without taking a glance to see if there is a kid sitting down behind your back bumper.
Umm ok so you are telling me you honestly check the tires every time you get into your vehicle? No, I am sure you don't, nobody does (but am sure you stop at red lights, and let the person with the right of way go first).

... so you are saying they want to test to see if somebody knows how to check to see if a tire is flat.. I am sorry but unless you are blind, it is quite obvious, and I don't think it needs to be tested, nobody should be failed for failure to do so. And any normal driver would know the moment they start to move their car that their tire is flat.

So once again my point is that it seems really silly to me, and has nothing to do with a person's driving ability..

And come on.. check for obstructions or kids.. nobody does that either, that is what the mirrors are for, and in any case who is to say a kid would not run in front of your car in the time between you checking and driving away?
Once again, silly, unrealistic for a test, and nothing to do with driving ability.
If it is so important it should be on a different test.. like maybe the written part?? One that it makes sense to ask about hypothetical situations.. not this "playing make-believe" in a driving skills test.

What a drivers test should be about is.. do you understand traffic laws.. right of way.. can you control your vehicle... those are the things that matter... all this other stuff we have talked about, if it is so vital to being a good driver, should have it's place on the written test... having it as part of the drivers test is just nonsense.
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02-25-2010, 01:57 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by RickOShay View Post
Umm ok so you are telling me you honestly check the tires every time you get into your vehicle? No, I am sure you don't, nobody does (but am sure you stop at red lights, and let the person with the right of way go first).
I may not always check if my tires are low on air, but I do take a glance at both sides of my car... I`ve been scraped three times in parking lots and would have hated to have noticed once I got home instead of while in the parking lot (two with surveillance, by the way) and been able to file a police report right then and there. It makes a difference for insurance.

Quote:
... so you are saying they want to test to see if somebody knows how to check to see if a tire is flat.. I am sorry but unless you are blind, it is quite obvious, and I don't think it needs to be tested, nobody should be failed for failure to do so. And any normal driver would know the moment they start to move their car that their tire is flat.
A normal driver. I would guess that at least 95% of the people taking the basic driving test are not normal drivers. They`re people who have little to no driving experience. For someone who HAS been driving for years, sure - that`s common sense. But for someone who may have only driven a total of 3 hours in their life on a closed driving course... I think that it IS a worthwhile test.

Quote:
And come on.. check for obstructions or kids.. nobody does that either, that is what the mirrors are for, and in any case who is to say a kid would not run in front of your car in the time between you checking and driving away?
You walk around the car in a circle taking a glance at both sides and both sets of tires. You start on the passenger side and walk around to get into the driver`s side. It isn`t some special part to check for a child, it`s just common sense safety.

Quote:
Once again, silly, unrealistic for a test, and nothing to do with driving ability.
If it is so important it should be on a different test.. like maybe the written part?? One that it makes sense to ask about hypothetical situations.. not this "playing make-believe" in a driving skills test.
Have you ever taken any other test that requires physical participation? They want you to actually DO some of these things to test on it.
For example, if you take a first aid class, you will have to ask the dummy on the floor "Can you hear me?!" and check it`s breathing and pulse - of course it isn`t going to answer you and it`s obvious it`s not going to be breathing or have a pulse. What is important is going through the motions. It shows that you know what to do should you have to do it. Answering a multiple choice question is a lot different than actually displaying the ability. That is what a test is.

No matter if people think it is totally silly, my opinion still stands. If it is too much bother to do just once for the driving test - an event that is obviously not "real life" - then the testers have every right to doubt that you`ll do all the other truly necessary stuff in real life.

In Japan the license isn`t just to drive, it`s to own a vehicle too. (You can`t purchase one without a license even if you have a parking space and cash in your hand).


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RickOShay (Offline)
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02-25-2010, 03:02 PM

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Originally Posted by Nyororin View Post
What is important is going through the motions. It shows that you know what to do should you have to do it. Answering a multiple choice question is a lot different than actually displaying the ability. That is what a test is.
This is what makes me disagree with your argument.. to display their ability?? Oh you mean that thing called... "walking".. and using ones sense of "sight" to make an extremely common sense deduction.

"In case of that flat tire, have you mastered the art of walking around your car and using your eyes to see if it is flat?" Seriously.. there is nothing being tested here...

If it was the law to walk around and check your vehicle every time you got into it here I could understand having it on the test. But the fact that 99% of people 99% of the time do not do this.. and yet.. it is part of a "driving" test, and if you do not do it you fail..... nonsense.

The fact is this "preventative measure" or whatever you want to call it is completely pointless unless it is done 100% of the time. And really even what is it preventing.. pretty much nothing.. even if you are too dense to notice that you have a flat at worst it will probably just ruin your rims..

Instead of focusing on silly stuff like this, maybe they should test if people actually know how to drive the speed limit, stop for red lights and WATCH WHERE THEY ARE GOING! Because with the amount of times I have almost been creamed by negligent drivers, I would really be surprised if they focus on that stuff... (now, I'm sure they would not pass somebody for doing this stuff either, but my point is there are way more important things than checking your tires that should be address during a drivers test)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nyororin View Post
No matter if people think it is totally silly, my opinion still stands. If it is too much bother to do just once for the driving test - an event that is obviously not "real life" - then the testers have every right to doubt that you`ll do all the other truly necessary stuff in real life.
Why would somebody honestly have the right to doubt a person's ability to do "truly necessary stuff" because of their inability to take time out and do ridiculous nonsensical stuff?
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02-25-2010, 03:32 PM

Quote:
Why would somebody honestly have the right to doubt a person's ability to do "truly necessary stuff" because of their inability to take time out and do ridiculous nonsensical stuff?
It is a test. You know what they are going to test you on. You know they want you to walk around the car and check the tires and the back of the vehicle before getting in.

You think it is a stupid waste of time and refuse to do it... Even though you know they are watching and know they will be checking to see if you do it.

Yes, I do think they have that right. It falls in the same category of, say, passing the driving test itself perfectly but insulting the tester and acting like a total jerk the whole time. They won`t pass you then either.

If this were stealing valuable test time from the "truly necessary stuff" I would understand being against it. But it doesn`t. They still test you on all the important stuff too, and it is more heavily weighted than any of the preventative stuff.

Tests are not real life. They are tests. The normal flow of getting a license in Japan is driving school then test as "graduation". Think of it as school, not just a random test. I have never taken a test that only tested the "truly necessary stuff". In school, for verifications, etc etc. I`ve had to give fake presentations on things I couldn`t care less about and that would never serve any purpose in real life... But it was a test, so I did them, as it tests the level of effort you put into the course. If all tests were only the truly necessary and important stuff - then you could pick up a page of test points and be ready.

Despite that, I STILL feel that it isn`t pointless or silly. You are getting into a car you have never driven, you have never seen before that day... It is common sense to actually look at it and check things before just hopping in and driving away. If you get a rental car, don`t you check to see if there is any damage to it before driving? Don`t you check to see where all the buttons and levers are? That is an important skill, and one that should be tested on inexperienced drivers.


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