Got job offer in Japan, Please help to take final decision

[Nyororin]

Originally Posted by noodle

AND I've spoken to people that have had the experience of getting much higher than 200k PLUS housing (like my dads colleague).

The question is WHEN. This was fairly common 5+ years ago. In the last 5 years? Not at all. Companies are willing to hire foreigners with skills and experience that they want, but aren`t willing to dish as much out of pocket to get them because there are simply so many people with the skills and experience who DO want to work in Japan and who are willing to work for much less just for the "thrill" of working in Japan. Not to mention the countless "fresh" graduates hunting for a job who have years of (part time) experience and years of intensive post-grad study programs under their belts.

A 20+ year experience top dog might still have a good chance to get into an "expat" position with all the frills, but it is simply NOT a good time and companies are the least willing to do anything special that they have ever been.

If you want to throw a fit and shoot the messenger - fine. Do what you want. You seem to make the assumption that I know nothing and have no connections... Simply because I am not telling you what you want to hear or not the same thing as you have heard elsewhere (Which by the way seems to be a whole lot more "friends and family" than anything I have said...). You`re welcome to think whatever you like - I`ll continue to address my advice to the rest of the people who are willing to listen. I do not know what EVERY company in Japan does, nor have I ever claimed to do so. But I DO have enough knowledge (And not through "friends and family") of a fair number of them to be able to make quite a nice guess as to the rest.

[KungMartin]

I would take it. I don't think it's easy to get a job offer in Japan=/

[noodle]

Originally Posted by Nyororin

The question is WHEN. This was fairly common 5+ years ago. In the last 5 years? Not at all. Companies are willing to hire foreigners with skills and experience that they want, but aren`t willing to dish as much out of pocket to get them because there are simply so many people with the skills and experience who DO want to work in Japan and who are willing to work for much less just for the "thrill" of working in Japan. Not to mention the countless "fresh" graduates hunting for a job who have years of (part time) experience and years of intensive post-grad study programs under their belts.

A 20+ year experience top dog might still have a good chance to get into an "expat" position with all the frills, but it is simply NOT a good time and companies are the least willing to do anything special that they have ever been.

Welcome to the worldwide recession!

Originally Posted by Nyororin

If you want to throw a fit and shoot the messenger - fine. Do what you want. You seem to make the assumption that I know nothing and have no connections... Simply because I am not telling you what you want to hear or not the same thing as you have heard elsewhere (Which by the way seems to be a whole lot more "friends and family" than anything I have said...). You`re welcome to think whatever you like. I do not know what EVERY company in Japan does, nor have I ever claimed to do so. But I DO have enough knowledge (And not through "friends and family").

Rather than me rewriting this, just read it to yourself and imagine I've said it

[Nyororin]

Originally Posted by noodle

Rather than me rewriting this, just read it to yourself and imagine I've said it

Yes, but the difference is I`m in Japan and have just spent the past month working 10 hours a day translating financial documents for 8622 (8825 if you count companies that filed separately by branch) Japanese engineering and software companies with foreign employees... (As they have to submit all their information to the various countries and do so in English...)

Something I kind of doubt you`ve done.

And still have about 2000 to go. *sigh*
The market is simply NOT supporting the type of situation you are saying is reality. And the example you are giving is a guy who came along with a visa in hand and was lucky enough to get hired on somewhere. That is not the norm.

In with those have been 217 employment search documents for engineers from overseas - a number that has been dropping and dropping each year. These days they are looking for Japanese engineers with foreign language skills and are willing to invest more in training them.
Could you get very lucky and find a high paying position? Sure. But it`s not realistic to expect that. The reality is that most everyone is started out on the bottom rung, and those who were offered those huge salaries are being laid off left and right - being replaced with fresh grads and Chinese or Indian counterparts.

[noodle]

I'm not even going to pretend I know what documents you are talking about!

How do you know he had a visa in hand? I don't even know that! And like I said earlier, the hardest part for a foreigner is to get hired without going through a company exchange program, so once you get hired above any Japanese, you must have something to offer, hence the higher pay!

Now what you're talking about is the recession. I don't know if you're following foreign affairs much, but what you've described is happening everywhere! Not long ago, Deutsche Bank investment devision in London made a big chunk of its employees redundant for fresh grads at cheap. The company I worked for, for the last two summers has started outsourcing more than just a bit of its IT GROUP to India!

Anyway, this'll go on forever! I'm either terrible at English and not making myself clear or I really don't understand what you're saying at all! Either way, I apparently suck at English! To me, I get the impression that you're telling people to not even think about trying for a higher salary because of this recession! But for someone that's heavily invested in engineering and economics/finance, I see a different picture! The recession has changed a lot of things for a lot of countries. Just barely a week ago, I read an article about how Japan is steering away from the marriage to one company business practice! Part time work and contracts are becoming ever more popular due to the recession.

So, lets just say, in Japan as a foreigner, "Hope for the best, but expect the worst", is that fair?

[blimp]

i can only look at myself.
now, i am not an engineer, still, i did not have to start all over as far as my salary was concerned, far from it i would say. that is why i believe that 200,000 JPY is very low for someone with experience.

what the OP could ask is if he/she will be hired as "shinsotsu" 新卒 or "keikensha" 経験者. this will hopefully explain it all.

[Tsuwabuki]

I'm not jumping into the middle here, but I will say that I understand both Nyororin's points and Noodle's points. I have no idea what the engineering industry looks like, so I cannot say who is right, but both arguments have logical structures, if you accept initial premises. The issue at hand is, whose premises are correct? I don't know.

I know that I would not take 20万 a month. I make quite a bit more than that, and did starting out of the gate. I do know, because I have been told, that one of the reasons I get bonuses and salary increases each year is because it is hard to get someone out where I live who is willing to live in rural Kyoto for extended periods of time. We're short a teacher right now. We have two schools that don't even have AETs. A damn shame, because one of them was the school I was at for two years, and I wish they hadn't transferred me.

So while I would not take the salary, (because I know I could get a higher paying position elsewhere), if I was the OP, I would have to make my decision based on what I know to be true about the market, and what my priorities are.

Also, very personal opinion, accepting a lower salary for the "thrill" of living in Japan is utterly silly. Accepting the only salary offered because you have no other options, and none in your home country, and Japan offers the only economic opportunity you have? Go for it.