Prized Japanese social values that withstand 'Westernization'

[Sangetsu]

The Japanese are definitely aware of their culture, and they go to great lengths teaching cultural studies in the classroom (and elsewhere). Even in my classes the students thank me after each lesson and bow in their seats. It shouldn't be any surprise that these cultural traits still run strong in university students.

I am constantly asked by Japanese if I like Japanese culture (almost as often as I am asked if I like Japanese food, or if I can eat natto). They admire western culture to a degree, but hold a special place in their hearts for their own culture, and they are always impressed if I say yes.

The article is interesting enough, but it's not news. The part concerning the increasing rate of bullying and violence is rather nonsense; the rate itself has not likely changed much, it is only the reporting of the bullying instances which has increased. In this there may be a little "westernization" at work, as victims now seem to be less ashamed of reporting bullies and the like. Violence has always occurred in Japanese classrooms to a certain extent, but it has been kept quiet by faculties until more recently. It's still not unheard of for a teacher to smack a misbehaving student, and the student will rarely share information about being smacked at home as his parents are likely to add a smack or two of their own.

One of my students got in trouble in another class last month, trouble which merited a call to his parents. The following day the student came to school with a black eye and a bruise on his arm (gifts from an angry father). In America the police might have been called by the school, but here in Japan lack-of-respect is not appreciated, and no one (including the student himself) thought that he didn't get what he deserved. This is another part of Japanese culture which still endures.

[steven]

There is certainly that aspect there. They technically are not supposed to hit kids in class (as far as I know). I have never seen a full blown smack or punch or anything like that (although I think it goes on from time to time quietly by certain teachers), but I'll see teachers smack kids around a little bit. I think it's interesting to note that there is a tinge of humor in doing so too, as many people jokingly do it (friends in bars, comedians on tv, etc). Have you heard of monster parents? Much of the reason why that kind of punishment has been on the decline (and this is from what I can tell... there are probably articles written with more facts or studies) is that parents are more willing to get intolved and complain about it now-a-days. What you see is that there are parents like the ones of that boy who will discipline their children and take what the teachers say very seriously. On the other hand you have parents who don't differ much from their wild children. In between you have parents who discipline their children and think that it's none of the schools business to do it for them. There are also parents who don't do any of that kind of stuff certainly don't want schools doing it either. As teachers/students/parents become more aware of this, it becomes more of a touchy subject.

I think in all cases it depends on the teacher and the student. Teachers know their students quite well (especially the trouble makers) and know if smacking the kid a little bit will get them in trouble or not. Teachers will often call parents and will also sometimes visit the homes of these kids to talk with their parents in person about current problems and such.

The Japanese are definitely aware of their culture, and they go to great lengths teaching cultural studies in the classroom (and elsewhere). Even in my classes the students thank me after each lesson and bow in their seats. It shouldn't be any surprise that these cultural traits still run strong in university students.
Just last week I had dinner with an extremely smart man (a president of a big company in the area). He is probably the most fluent in English Japanese person I've talked to in the area. His accent is also quite incredible. When talking about English education with him I brought up the idea of just showing movies/tv shows to elementary school kids in that they'd probably learn really natural English that way without even having to study. While he recognized its effectiveness, he was very weary of doing so because he felt it would take away from the Japanese cultural identity. He said there is an importance of speaking English as a foreigner-- from a foreigners perspective-- a Japanese perspective. I thought that was quite an interesting take on it. It might not have the most to do with the topic at hand, but I felt as if maybe he was trying to preserve culture in this world of globalization. I definitely saw the merit in his argument... but my beef was that a lot of what Japanese say in English doesn't even translate on English, therefore their communication and transfer of cultural ideas are quite hampered.

When reading any articles, be very careful to note how they have arrived at their conclusions. If they have "data" be certain to look at what kind of data it is. Statistics is a very powerful tool, regardless of whether or not it is done correctly. You often get people, like the guy who wrote this article, who probably have all kinds of preconceived notions about what they're studying and take some really skewed data and draw some cliche conclusions from it. Japan may no longer be the mystical far eastern oriental dream-land that it once was, but there are many of these ideas that have been adapted to modern times. Everyone in Japan is polite. Every student in Japan is perfect. Except the "ijime", or "bullies". Every Japanese person loves the west. Japan is and has always been super clean and tidy. Japanese are respectful (this one will sometimes even infer that Americans or people from other countries are not). Japan is a straight dichotomy of great big super-future cities and beautiful old temples. I'm sure the list goes beyond what I have seen, but I think you get the idea. I feel like i've read so much of the same thing written by different authors that my bullshit alarm goes off straight away. It's like they just recycle the same ideas gathered in the mid-80's. The best part about the guy who wrote this article is that he even warns of these "cliche" ideas:
"But they get almost no real contact with Japanese people. As for those motivated by commerce, most Americans realize soon enough that guidebooks on "how to do business with the Japanese" are cliched, oversimplified and even misleading."
Then he goes on to talk about the same things those "how to do business with the Japanese" books do. Go ahead and research the guy who wrote this article and decide for yourself if this subject matter is anywhere near his field.

But yea, Sangetsu... I admire you. One part of me that I'm afraid will always be westernized is my distaste for natto. I can eat it and do eat it when it's presented to me... but I do not like it in the least. I'm sure psychology plays a part in this, but I swear when I say it triggers my asthma haha.

And PPS: I feel bad for your student who got roughed up by his parents. Is that a normal thing at your school? I've never seen something that severe in my school before and hope I never do.

[dogsbody70]

In our culture, to apologize is typically regarded as a sign of personal weakness, whether in business or family matters. So even when we Americans know we're in the wrong, we rarely make either public or private apologies. Carry this attitude into relations with the Japanese, and you're doomed to failure.


the above is from the original message at the beginning of this thread.

I thought that was bunching all Americans together which surely is wrong anymore than people from other countries all act in the same way.

Here in Britain we can be sure if it happens in America it soon catches on in UK. especially certain phrases. There are so many American programmes on TV that it is hardly surprising.


If someone were to ask me about British culture I would have difficulty in replying as being [part of the older generation I possibly miss out alot on the younger generation.


with the advent of the internet and the exposure to world wide TV this generation is far more open to influences from across the world.

As a kid I was pretty ignorant about what was happening elsewhere apart from the war.

the poverty and hardship that was normal then.

Now we are able to learn so much more of events globally. I feel that things will change globally also.

When Japan was isolated from the rest of the world as they once were I imagine there was no outsider to influence the Japanese way of doing things.

years ago here in Britain it was the custom for a mother to stay at home with her children. Npwadays with the high cost of living and trying to make ends meet re mortgages and rent etc, mothers and fathers both need to work so that more children do not have such a close relationship with their child timewise. They try to have quality time but I feel that youngsters often don't have the old type of family home.

I am old fashioned but I wonder if japanese parents have enough time to spend with their children.

Maybe its the norm in most places.


We are told that the japanese people are workaholics working very long hours. I do not know if this is still the case. My japanese friend certainly feels she must work constantly at her studies here-- and feels guilty if she takes time off school.

Sorry if none of this is revelant. We get bullying here of course and especially via the internet and mobile phones. Children are born wild and have to be tamed really. If not allowed any freedom and having to study constantly what free time is there to develop as an individual.

Usually Bullies are very unhappy and insecure so they take it out on some others. they have always been here and always will. It seems part of human nature.

I must say when I had some japanese students stay here they were a pleasure and were so thoughtful and helpful. I certainly appreciated that.

[dogsbody70]

[quote=Sangetsu;816838]The Japanese are definitely aware of their culture, and they go to great lengths teaching cultural studies in the classroom (and elsewhere). Even in my classes the students thank me after each lesson and bow in their seats. It shouldn't be any surprise that these cultural traits still run strong in university students.



I think its great that the culture is taught after all its a magnificent history to be proud of. I heard a programme on BBC radio this morning It is a programme about the hundred objects that made the world-- fascinating indeed. This object was a Japanese burnished mirror. I will listen again to the programme but it was fascinating and I will tell you later

[steven]

dogsbody70, I can't speak for other people, but I find your contributions very interesting. Your observations are great to hear about.

In fact, I think we had similar feelings about that part of the article that talks about apologizing. It's a very generalizing statement. Considering America is composed of many different cultures and peoples (as is the UK), I think it's hard to really pinpoint what Americans are or aren't. I found that statement the author made about Americans to be disrespectful, actually.

The more I discover forums about Japan on the internet, the more I run into people who once loved Japan, but are now sick of it. They usually cite things such as Japanese people constantly talking about the 4 seasons and things like that. I feel people think the Japanese are almost elitist in a sense. I think it may be part of their awareness of their own culture, and their ability and willingness to try to share it with other people. On the other hand, you have people like the person who wrote this article (an American) who, when comparing Japan to America, can't simply praise Japan, but somehow feels the need to slight America at the same time. It's people like him that I've grown tired of.

When Japan was isolated from the rest of the world as they once were I imagine there was no outsider to influence the Japanese way of doing things.
It's funny you say this, because Japan does have a history of isolationism. Someone else here probably knows more details about the situation than I do (I imagine a search on wikipedia might give you an overview). Although they had influence and contact with westerners before the Meiji period, that is usually considered the time when Japanese were most influenced by the west. I get the feeling, although it's an assumption, that during the Taisho period certain government involved Japanese people wanted to bring back some of the Japanese traditions and may have taken that idea too far.

However, what you don't read about too often in history books is rural Japan. The more I talk to elder people around where I live, the more of an understanding I get. A lot of these people have seen way more in their lifetime than I probably would care to (as they are about 80, 90+). While they are certainly influenced by western culture, such as TV, certain food, and some technology, a lot of them have never really seen a foreigner with their own eyes before. Some of them seem to be living just as they always have, and not too unlike how their parents would have lived (as farmers).

We are told that the japanese people are workaholics working very long hours. I do not know if this is still the case. My japanese friend certainly feels she must work constantly at her studies here-- and feels guilty if she takes time off school.

That is certainly the feeling I get. I have coworkers (who are all above me) who get in at around 7AM and don't leave until 10 or 11PM. They also come in on weekends and probably work a regular 8 hours (for a day). That's certainly more drive than I have! You can't say that for everyone though, and there are certainly some peopl that stick mroe or less to their contracted times.

It's funny you say that about Japanese and school. While colleges are generally considered harder and better (this is just hearsey though) in America than Japan (on the whole), whenever Japanese people came to my college, they would dominate. Theirs nothing like an ESL person getting better grades than you can haha. It should be realized that the reason they get to come to America is because they either have money or they were the cream of the crop as far as studies go.

About family life-- you may know that Japan is somewhat known for multi-generation homes. Grandparents-parents-children-and sometimes even grandchildren. That model has been deteriorating for a while, supposedly. As a teacher, I can most of the time see the difference between kids who were raised that way and kids who do not live with their grandparents. You hear the word standard of living a lot-- but I think those kids who grew up in multi generation homes seem happier. I'm sure they get a good education from their grandparents. With that model in mind, maybe people felt the ability to work long hours to support their family. If the grandparents are at home to take care of the children, why not? Now-a-days, if those grandparents aren't around and the parents are still working long hours, then who raises the kids? TV and the internet and whatever the kids want to be raised by. That's what that article should be about... not more fodder for what westerners who are interested in Japan want to hear about Japan.

It's all about sampling. This guy sampled people from what appears to be Todai. Maybe if he painted his picture with real life color, we'd get a real life image. According to globaluniversitiesranking.org, Todai is ranked 3rd in the world.

He took a small sample of a very smart university, asked questions about a culture that he may or may not be qualified to talk about (looking at his books, I doubit it), and then drew conclusions that are quite synonymous with the "doing business with Japanese" style books that he bashed in his introduction. What a waste of time. At least it sparked an interesting conversation.

[dogsbody70]

thanks again steven for your thoughtful comments. I'll be back later.

Babs in UK.

[dogsbody70]

http://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/a...ts/id351096296

there is a podcast of that programme regarding JAPAN. THe burnished mirror is the one broadcast on 23rd of June.

some of you MAY find it of interest.

[dogsbody70]

Here in UK there are nurseries but they can be very expensive, Many gr parents now find themselves helping to look after their grandchildren so that the childs parents can go to work.

I don't know if we ever lived in a multi generational way although it must have happened. As a gr mother I am happy to help out occasionally but also like my freedom to do my own thing so would not care to look after the gr children on a regular basis although I know many that do. It certainly can be hard for working couples with children.

I don't know if the jewish kibbutz are still around. They seemed to be a good idea sort of communal living.

I have some Chinese Friends, I am so impressed by the high respect they have for their own parents. I must admit I fell in love with their mother who has moved here to UK. she is so sweet. Both of them are extremely clever and work hard> we all play recorders together.


I doubt that there is the same respect for elderly parents in this country althoughof course I must not generalises.

My japanese friend is very aware of her duty towards her relatives and goes out of her way to help them. Also her duty towards Japan.

I am all for the young generation mixing with the older generation as they can learn so much from one another.

I was interested in the way the japanese wash before entering the bath. It makes sense of course and helps stop too much wastage of water.

THE hot springs also sound very pleasant way to relax.

I do feel that we can all learn much from each other don't you?

[dogsbody70]

this item from the japan times.

The lower paragraph tells of serving Living Fish for sushi. URGH-- Is this really true?

The Japanese and their 'feelings' | The Japan Times Online