Preparing for a Year Studying Abroad in Japan, any Advice?

[Nyororin]

Originally Posted by MMM

I think there is some confusion with this area, as public intoxication is more prevalent in Japan rather than the US. It isn't uncommon to see (especially but not exclusively) younger people passed out in restaurant booths or at train stations. Here someone would call the police if someone was that drunk in public. Public intoxication is illegal, and the bar or restaurant serving them could be fined or even closed.

I think that your passed out and my passed out may mean different things. To me, being passed out is to the point of being close to or impossible to wake. It isn`t hard to find someone in Japan who drank to much and then went to sleep in a booth or on a station bench, but the guys who are really passed out DO get the police or at least someone called on them here. There is little stigma to just falling asleep in public (I mean, look at how many people who don`t drink at all who fall into a deep slumber during their commutes) so it is looked at differently.

If you want to see some serious people passed out in the streets... Well, I grew up fairly close to the campus of a major US university and go back to that area on US visits.
There would be ropes blocking the drunks from stumbling into traffic, and there would be people passed out (as in needing to be carried) all over the place.
You do not see that in Japan. You don`t see parties where the goal is to get someone so trashed that they pass out. You don`t see people sitting out on their porches with kegs watching friends vomit on the lawn.

The culture is just completely different in regards to drinking.

[MMM]

Originally Posted by Nyororin

I think that your passed out and my passed out may mean different things. To me, being passed out is to the point of being close to or impossible to wake. It isn`t hard to find someone in Japan who drank to much and then went to sleep in a booth or on a station bench, but the guys who are really passed out DO get the police or at least someone called on them here. There is little stigma to just falling asleep in public (I mean, look at how many people who don`t drink at all who fall into a deep slumber during their commutes) so it is looked at differently.

If you want to see some serious people passed out in the streets... Well, I grew up fairly close to the campus of a major US university and go back to that area on US visits.
There would be ropes blocking the drunks from stumbling into traffic, and there would be people passed out (as in needing to be carried) all over the place.
You do not see that in Japan. You don`t see parties where the goal is to get someone so trashed that they pass out. You don`t see people sitting out on their porches with kegs watching friends vomit on the lawn.

The culture is just completely different in regards to drinking.

I have never heard of an area that had ropes to keep drunks from stumbling in the streets. I think different college towns have different cultures...and some are more extreme than others.

In general American society (what I have seen) even nodding off at a barstool is enough to get you 86ed. Slight slurring of words is enough or not walking straight is enough. You simply don't see people "passed out" or "sleeping" in public places in at least the parts of the US I have been in. Loud parties of college students or coworkers at izakayas is pretty common, at least in Osaka and other parts of Kansai. Calls of "iki iki" ("bottoms up") would be seen at Japanese bars and bar/restaurants where that would get a group kicked out in the US.

I understand those who can't wake up get the police called on them in Japan. I have seen it dozens (maybe more) times. Doesn't have to be a weekend, either. It could be 8:00 on a Wednesday night.

I think you are comparing college town USA culture with all of Japan, and I don't think that is a fair comparison. Even my college town of Eugene, Oregon has a higher drinking "culture" than most non-college towns. However I don't think it is fair to say America has a more alcohol-orientated social cultural than Japan.

One can certainly live a alcohol free life and be 100% satisfied in either culture.

[Nyororin]

Originally Posted by MMM

I have never heard of an area that had ropes to keep drunks from stumbling in the streets. I think different college towns have different cultures...and some are more extreme than others.

This has been pretty much the norm in every college town I`ve been to. At least along the main streets where the bars are. I`ve seen it in quite a few places. You could probably go through life without ever encountering it if you don`t go out bar hopping.

In general American society (what I have seen) even nodding off at a barstool is enough to get you 86ed. Slight slurring of words is enough or not walking straight is enough. You simply don't see people "passed out" or "sleeping" in public places in at least the parts of the US I have been in.

I`ll agree that you don`t see as many people sleeping out in public - but I still would say that on an average day you will spot a lot more people under the influence of something... And those who are under the influence of alcohol tend to be a LOT more drunk than the average in Japan.

Loud parties of college students or coworkers at izakayas is pretty common, at least in Osaka and other parts of Kansai. Calls of "iki iki" ("bottoms up") would be seen at Japanese bars and bar/restaurants where that would get a group kicked out in the US.

Yeah, but these are special events and chances are the person being egged on is someone who regularly drinks a lot. I took classes at two different universities in the US, and two in Japan. In the US, every weekend, sports event, day after tests, house to yourself, etc - there would be some kind of drinking event. This spilled over into high school, and there were plenty of high school parties of the same vein. There was plenty of chugging, and most of it was centered on getting someone who didn`t want to drink much as drunk as possible.
In Japan, there would be a get together of that sort at an izakaya once every month or two at most. It was more like once every semester (after exams) or if there was a special event like someone moving away.
Casual drinking (ie. a few drinks at a friend`s house or after work) is more common in Japan, but binge drinking seems to be more common in the US.
It seems to me that people drink less frequently in general in the US, but when they DO there is more of a tendency to overdo it. (in the younger set at least - I don`t know about the drinking culture in 35~40+ in the US....)

It`s a bit unfair to say that it would get a group kicked out in the US as I don`t think I`ve ever seen a real izakaya-like establishment in the US. It`s either a restaurant with a bar service to the side, or a bar with a bit of food served. Neither of which would fill the role of an izakaya.

I think you are comparing college town USA culture with all of Japan, and I don't think that is a fair comparison. Even my college town of Eugene, Oregon has a higher drinking "culture" than most non-college towns. However I don't think it is fair to say America has a more alcohol-orientated social cultural than Japan.

I don`t really think it is fair that Japan so often gets the reputation of being a country of drunks, with people passing out left and right. It is this reputation that seems to get linked to the US college town drinking culture - and they are completely different. The OP is going to be attending university in Japan. My guess is that US college town drinking is going to be a bit more familiar than some other examples that might work.

[steven]

Nyororin I am completely baffled at your knowledge of that stuff... 0_0. It seems to explain a lot of things so I believe you.

I can honestly say that I've seen a LOT of drunk Japanese people. In California, I know my city has started adding more laws to stop drunks in public (around the bars), but I left before that happened, and I've never seen as many drunks as I have in Japan. That's just my small experience talking though.

In Japan I've seen people barfing and barely able to walk and completely slurring their speech... you name it. I've seen drunken boob grabbage and all kinds of stuff like that. I'm sure plenty of that goes on with college students in America still, but I can't imagine adults doing much of that stuff (especially like 40+ year olds). I've seen people falling off their stools, too... and all kinds of that stuff. I saw a drunk guy climb a tree and swing around in it once (like bear huggign the trunk and making it move around). The beauty of it all is that these people get rides home in taxis or in daiko taxis. The places where these people drink are also held responsible for any drunk driving, so they have to call the companies to take the drunken people home. Maybe it's just easier to get trashed with the comfort in knowing the people around you will take care of you so you (to an extent). On the weekends that I've gone out, I see at least one person drunkenly asleep in our small station (which is nuts in the winter). Most of the drinking I've seen people do here is something I'd classify as excessive (including myself). I've never really seen people drink in moderation (as in one or two and then it's over... even if that's the case, it's because they're plastered after one or two).

I have no idea about college life in Japan, but the study abroad students that I met in America never really binge drank. I only saw it on birthdays and going away parties (for the birthday person or going away-ee).

[MMM]

Originally Posted by Nyororin

This has been pretty much the norm in every college town I`ve been to. At least along the main streets where the bars are. I`ve seen it in quite a few places. You could probably go through life without ever encountering it if you don`t go out bar hopping.

I guess I haven't been to that many college towns, but, again, I don't think college towns represent the majority of drinking culture in America. I have been out drinking all over America, from L.A. to D.C. and never seen it. I am not saying it doesn't happen, but I have never seen it.

Originally Posted by Nyororin

I`ll agree that you don`t see as many people sleeping out in public - but I still would say that on an average day you will spot a lot more people under the influence of something... And those who are under the influence of alcohol tend to be a LOT more drunk than the average in Japan.

If the question is drug use, for sure, America has more drug users in the US. If people are under the influence of anything in Japan, 99.9% of the time it is alcohol, and nothing more. That being said, I live in one of the most marijuana friendly states in America, and it is only a few times a year I think to myself "That guy is high."

Under the influence of something...sure, America wins. Publicly intoxicated...it's Japan. I don't even have to think about it for more than a second or two. 95% of the time I have spent in Japan has been in Kansai, so maybe I have a skewed view, though I have been out from Sapporo to Tokyo to Nagoya to Fukuoka, and public intoxication appears to be a national pastime.

Originally Posted by Nyororin

Yeah, but these are special events and chances are the person being egged on is someone who regularly drinks a lot. I took classes at two different universities in the US, and two in Japan. In the US, every weekend, sports event, day after tests, house to yourself, etc - there would be some kind of drinking event. This spilled over into high school, and there were plenty of high school parties of the same vein. There was plenty of chugging, and most of it was centered on getting someone who didn`t want to drink much as drunk as possible.

I've seen it on both sides of the Pacific, Nyororin, so I can't say it doesn't happen more one place or the other. American colleges have more of a "living alone" or "group living" (i.e. Greek system) culture, so it is easy to see how extreme drinking happens among college aged kids, but at the same time I see extreme drinking from men in their 40s, 50s, and 60s much more in Japan than in the US. American men simply don't drink socially as much as men in Japan do. I had friends in Japan I could only see Sunday or after 11:00 PM because they were out drinking with their coworkers literally six nights a week. That would be grounds for divorce in the US, but in Japan it is an accepted part of the business culture. I understand that it is changing, but even at its most extreme, America never saw it like this.

Originally Posted by Nyororin

In Japan, there would be a get together of that sort at an izakaya once every month or two at most. It was more like once every semester (after exams) or if there was a special event like someone moving away.

I think you are comparing college students to college students...and in that respect you probably have a good point.

Originally Posted by Nyororin

Casual drinking (ie. a few drinks at a friend`s house or after work) is more common in Japan, but binge drinking seems to be more common in the US.
It seems to me that people drink less frequently in general in the US, but when they DO there is more of a tendency to overdo it. (in the younger set at least - I don`t know about the drinking culture in 35~40+ in the US....)

See, I see it as the opposite. Going to someone's house to have drinks or dinner seems like more of a rarity to me in Japan compared to the US. In the US it seems like you go to someone's house for dinner and bring a bottle of wine you split. In Japan sake is poured until someone falls asleep and the wife has to pull them out by the ear.

Originally Posted by Nyororin

It`s a bit unfair to say that it would get a group kicked out in the US as I don`t think I`ve ever seen a real izakaya-like establishment in the US.

Right, they don't exist. But beer pounding, "iki iki" is not allowed in the licensed establishments I have been to. Bartenders have to pace their patrons. That kind of "iki iki" culture is mostly reserved for college parties. However I have seen grown adults with children "iki iki" in Japan (and in public), where I don't see that in the US among grown adults.

Originally Posted by Nyororin

It`s either a restaurant with a bar service to the side, or a bar with a bit of food served. Neither of which would fill the role of an izakaya.

That's partially my point. Izakaya culture doesn't exist in America.

Originally Posted by Nyororin

I don`t really think it is fair that Japan so often gets the reputation of being a country of drunks, with people passing out left and right. It is this reputation that seems to get linked to the US college town drinking culture - and they are completely different. The OP is going to be attending university in Japan. My guess is that US college town drinking is going to be a bit more familiar than some other examples that might work.

I didn't say Japan was a country of drunks or that people are passing out right and left. I am just saying public intoxication is more socially acceptable in Japan, so I think it is hard to say America is more intoxicated than Japan is.

But to your last point, I don't know. Not all US colleges are in "college towns". Each college and neighborhood it sits in has its own culture. Some strive to be "party schools" and others are proud to not be like that.

[steven]

MMM, I tend to agree with you for the most part... the part that is really crazy to me is like you said... there are 40, 50, and 60 year olds drinking out until god knows when even on weekdays! I'm in my early 20's and I can't keep up with these guys.

As far as intoxication in public goes, when I've seen in it California it's either a bum who's drunk or regular (I guess?) people who are high. I've seen a ton of people high around where I lived. I've seen people toking up while driving even. I think in s. california there are a lot more high people walking around than I'd like to imagine. By the time I was a senior in high school there were probably 3-4 kids high in every class I had.

However, even at that level, they weren't high to the point of falling out of their chairs... and that seems to be the "intoxicated" level here in Japan.

Being a white person, I feel a little rude asking this, but do Japanese folks get a lot of liver failure??? I'm in such aw at all the 60+ year old Japanese smoking and drinking past like 12 AM on weekdays. I feel a little jealous, to be honest... how much more resiliant are they than I to this stuff? I feel like if I kept up at that pace for a year I'd be dead.

[Nyororin]

I think that somewhere along the way what I was saying has been misinterpreted and dragged in another direction.

I said I have personally experienced much more pressure to drink (and excessively at that) in the US than I have in Japan.

There is no stigma attached to drinking in Japan, so it is not a big deal, nor is it looked on as something "special" - people drink, get drunk, and that`s that. I honestly do not see people making a huge fuss out of it.
Because there is less stigma, there is no need to keep it out of public view - so you see more people who have been drinking and who are in various stages of intoxication.
In the US though, there IS a stigma attached to it, so there IS something "special" to it (at least through the high school, college, and early "adult" years). There is a stigma attached to being seen while intoxicated, so the people who you do spot who are drunk are people who have reached the point where they could care less.

To someone coming from a culture where there is a heavy stigma attached to being out in public when intoxicated, or at least not doing your best to hide it - Japan tends to look much worse than it is in reality. THIS is what I am trying to say. Japan gets a bad rap for being a country full of drunks, when the whole deal is looked at much differently so it seems to be more a case of cultural acceptance and a lack of stigma resulting in far more visibility.

Per capita alcohol consumption in Japan is quite a bit lower than that in the US, UK, and AUS. However, there are different social and cultural norms in those places, so you may not see it in public.

[steven]

I think you put it quite clearly there-- that's a good way of looking at it and something I overlooked from your earlier posts.

"Per capita alcohol consumption in Japan is quite a bit lower than that in the US, UK, and AUS. However, there are different social and cultural norms in those places, so you may not see it in public."

Is this really true? It may tie into the fact that more people like to drink at home in the US... where more people in Japan are accustomed to drinking when they go out (which makes sense to what you said about there being less of a stiigma there).

I think I was taking a lot of my american perspective into this argument-- being drunk in public is not a bad thing until something bad happens (like drunk driving/accidents or some kinds of lewd activity). I haven't heard of any deaths by drunk driving here in my 2 years of living here-- where I came from there would be about 4 HS kids a year dying from drunk driving related accidents. Like I said, I've seen minor lewd stuff here like boob grabbage, but that was in the context of a snack bar, and I can only imagine what goes on in high school/college parties these days in the US.

But what Nyororin said is an important thing-- there are benefits to looking at a new culture, like the Japanese one you plan on entering, with a very open perspective and not placing too much of your American (?) ideals of what etiquette is on the situations you will encounter. I think that is key to enjoying your time better while you're here. You will definately gain a new perspective and might come to see certain parts of your own culture as strange if you gain the ability to look at them from a Japanese-ish perspective.

This is kind of a weird example, but you can pee in public in Japan (not that people make of peeing in the main streets or anything like that)... but there is comfort in knowing that if you are in a long drive somewhere you don't run the risk of being called a pervert if you decide to take a leak on the side of the road somewhere.

I'd think it a good idea to learn as much about these things before you get to Japan so you can let the shock come and go before you're around the world from your home.

By the way, Misericordias, you have inspired me. I am planning to go out and get a rod sometime around the end of this month so I can go fishing at the crack of dawn before I head into work this summer. My girlfriend and I can make bentos the night before and bring them with us for breakfast and then eat the fish that we catch for dinner. I've been dreaming about doing that since the dead of winter this year.

[Misericordias]

I am finally finished with finals so now I can fully concentrate on getting everything properly processed and thinking of some more questions! I also want to apologize if I sounded like I was criticizing the drinking culture in Japan. No harm or ill intentions were meant behind that question- I was just curious on how to approach a situation if I were offered a drink.

hehe, glad to see someone else will begin to enjoy the peace and tranquility of fishing! All the more power to you, stevens, and I hope you catch a big one!

[Misericordias]

Hello, it's almost time for me to depart to Japan, so some new questions are starting to pop up in my head. Right now, I need to apply for a credit card for Japan, but I am not too sure which one I should get. I heard Visa is accepted almost universally in Japan, but I am not too sure about that. Would it be best to apply for a credit card over there, or is that too risky/not worth it for a student staying only for a year?

Also, how should I approach banks? Since I need funds transferred from the US to Japan, I think an international bank like HSBC would be my best bet, but if there are other options that are simpler/easier, that would be great. I have been thinking about opening an HSBC account because they have banks in Japan, but how widespread is HSBC? Is the bank and its ATM machines only located in Tokyo and other metropolitan areas, or is it widespread? Would there be another international bank that would be better for me to use in Japan?

Thank you once again for taking the time to read and answer my questions!