Racism in Japan. How bad is it?

[Nyororin]

Originally Posted by Ronin4hire

I dont think its a myth. Exaggerated maybe (I wouldnt know and untill someone does some sort of research on it then we can never say whether it is exaggerated or not)... but not a myth.

I didn`t say it is a myth, nor that it never happens. Just that you hear a lot more friend-of-a-friend, or "I read it online!" stories than first hand accounts.

As for having to have some sort of work history here in Japan to be viable to rent an apartment, according to my teacher the only criteria is that you be able to prove you have a reliable income. With him he was getting a Japanese sponsored GOVERNMENT scholarship so that he could do his Phd.

In Japan, proving you have a reliable income is pretty much the same as asking for job history. The words may be different, but the job history IS what is looked at to prove you have a reliable income. You could be making millions, but if you don`t have the credit then you simply don`t have the credit.

Furthermore the association of foreigners with being unreliable is racist in itself and not an excuse for discrimination.

Not an excuse - but the people who do screw their landlords over and who do initiate that kind of crap use the other direction as an excuse for it. "They`re going to discriminate against me anyway, so why not?" I cannot tell you how many people with that attitude I have encountered - both in real life and online.
Screaming about it without making any attempts to fix the root problem is not going to help. Efforts need to be made on both sides. Japan is not a country where you encounter a foreigner at every turn. If the only dealings that someone ever has with a foreigner end in their being screwed over, no amount of education or activism is going to help. Experience is thousands of times more powerful than words alone. As long as there are countless eikaiwa teachers in Japan who see it as an easy way to party and treat Japan like a playground - things are not going to improve. In fact, at this point a lot of the activism actually looks to be protecting that sort of behavior which is NOT going to help your point.

I would take Debito's stuff with a pinch of salt. He jumps on any little misunderstanding and brands it racism. In fact, he probably gives us gaijin a bad name as troublemakers much more than any good he might do.

And... THIS. He leaps on anything to add it to his activism list, usually without tackling the root problem... Or even really looking into it.

[minamo9]

Personally i think japan is one of the most non racist countries in the world.

I have never experienced any troubles in japan.

However, some hostess bars and some night bars at kabuchiko and a few other outer skirts districts refuse gaijins.

This is not really racism,this happened deu to the fact to many americans came in and groped the girls. I have talked to some of the bar owners, and they all had very bad experiences with drunken tourist,so we have put that on ourselves really.

apart from this i have been treated way better then even in my own country.

Henk

[dogsbody70]

I recently read a book "TOKYO HOSTESS" which showed how girls from other countries go there to work and often end up in the Hostess Bars. It reminded me a lot of SOHO over here. It also was about the girl who had been murdered who had worked in one of those places.

Quite shocking really.

[dogsbody70]

Originally Posted by Shizu

She writes about her life. She is a university student, and she loves Japan, the language, culture and everything about the country, just like me.
She learns Japanese.
She writes only about her life, what's she doing, about music she likes, concerts she went, places she visited. A normal personal blog, that's why I don't understand.

I've said her, delete the messages, but it must be really hurtful, if you got a message like this.

hm, but actually I don't thing this thing needs a sense of humour.
I think I have a good sense of humour, but I don't think this is funny.
And, for me it's really strange and scary thing to hear some stories, about elementary or high school youngster send cruel messages for each other and hurts and hit each other (I've heard many stories about young students, who committed suicide because of her/his classmates bullied her/him), because I've never experience anything like this. oO

what I am trying to say is not to take it seriously. In this country we wind each other up. Many people are bullies-- and with the internet it is all so easy. In life we have to toughen up-- I do not suggest fo rone second that it is funny-- but bullies like to get a reaction. If they don't get a reaction often they becoame bored. I have been called many things in my life-- but its only words after all.

Forums are easy places to cause aggro--.

Maybe there is some jealousy involved also. ALl bullies are cowards and feel inadequate themselves.

Maybe your friend can set up a different blog etc. In life we have to learn to stand up to bullies and beat them at their own game.

We hear of bullying on mobile phones. Its nasty and sneaky and cruel.

[Shizu]

Originally Posted by dogsbody70

We hear of bullying on mobile phones. Its nasty and sneaky and cruel.

on phone? O_O but... how can they get the mobile phone's number? o.O"

[RickOShay]

Originally Posted by Nyororin

In Japan, proving you have a reliable income is pretty much the same as asking for job history. The words may be different, but the job history IS what is looked at to prove you have a reliable income. You could be making millions, but if you don`t have the credit then you simply don`t have the credit.

Actually for me job history was not an issue. It was just where do I work and how much do I make. They did ask how long I have been in the country but not how long I had been employed at various places.

I think when it comes to apartment rentals having a viable guarantor is the biggest thing people look at when renting to foreigners.

[steven]

I'd always imagined Fukui to be similar to here. I've been there a few times and love it there. In fact, I'm planning on going again this month. The people there are so freakin' nice it's out of this world. When you get towards Kyoto, they all basically speak Kansai, from what I've encountered. When you get a little bit more in the heart of Fukui, it's a different story. I asked a gas station attendant some directions one time and thought he was making fun of me as a foreigner because of his accent. Once I figured out that's what Fukui-ben sounded like, I was quite surprised! It's quite a different accent... and this is coming from someone who speaks Toyama-ben haha. I think when most people see a foreigner, they try their best to use English or standard Japanese. This kid was probably tired from working all day and just spoke the way I assume he always spoke, and I was quite happy for it . I love Diamond Beach, Eiheiji and all the little tourist stops. I went to a random place and just happened to be on time for an all you can eat 手作り流し茶そば. It was quite humbling getting completely worked by a few older ladies. I went to Sabae recently and their second hand shops are probably the best I've encountered in Japan as far as high end recording equipment goes (like mic pres, mics, etc). That's a pretty specific niche, but for whatever reason, Fukui has it, and I love it.

A few of you guys have mentioned the Chinese thing of yesterday. My wife's mom works at a conbini and we got the funniest mail from her last night. She was completely baffled at the fact that there was a group of about 30 Chinese who all came into her store at once!

I think a lot of Chinese people come to Toyama because our airport goes to China... that article just mentioned the big cities, but I have a feeling we got a lot of Chinese as well. Maybe they came to see their relatives who live here? I have no idea why they'd want to come to my town haha. (but I like it here so why not?)

[GoNative]

I doubt very much if any of you criticising Debito have ever truly read much of his writings. He is not as petty as you try and make out and although some of those posting on his site certainly are he doesn't just side with them on every little issue they raise.

To be honest Nyororin you really do sound very much like the sort of gaijin who I calissify as a denialist. You seem to feel the need to defend any sort of criticism of Japan and truly can't accept that there is anything valid to criticise in this country. Everything here is utterly perfect is it? You continually provide excuses to explain away any criticism or claim that the criticism is unfounded because whoever is making it doesn't really understand the language or culture. The fact that you personally haven't experienced racism first hand does not mean that others haven't and that their experiences are not valid. Like it or not, like every other country on the planet, there is a segment of Japanese society that is very racist. It's not just poor misguided gaijin who can't understand the language and culture misinterpreting things.

There is another class of gaijin here who I feel fall into a guest mentality. They feel that they and all foreigners are guests of this country and have no right to criticise it. Personally having bought a house, business and having my first child here I don't feel like a guest. When I lived in Aus I was very critical of many things there and now I live here I see no reason why I can't also criticise things here. Japan is great place to live but it is hardly some utopian wonderland!

[Nyororin]

Originally Posted by GoNative

I doubt very much if any of you criticising Debito have ever truly read much of his writings. He is not as petty as you try and make out and although some of those posting on his site certainly are he doesn't just side with them on every little issue they raise.

Look into the 2ch fiasco. Check into the Japanese side and the lawsuits he has been involved in, and check into the leaked court documents regarding his divorce. Sorry, but taking your young kids around and pushing them into situations to bring attention to racism does NOT sit well with me and never will.

Like it or not, like every other country on the planet, there is a segment of Japanese society that is very racist. It's not just poor misguided gaijin who can't understand the language and culture misinterpreting things.

I don`t recall saying that things were perfect or that there was nothing to criticize. I will say, continue to say, and say loudly that the majority of stuff that people take on in activism is A) NOT the stuff they should be taking on, and B) Taken on in the wrong way. 90% of the people who are complaining about racism, discrimination, etc in Japan have not personally experienced it or have taken offense at something that was indeed misguided. This is why there were stupid groups protesting things like people asking them about if they liked Japanese food at the event I went to that had a very valid aim (juuminhyou listing). You cannot expect to have people take you seriously when you`re taking a poor tactic to begin with, and that is flooded with petty stuff.

Not to mention I have to say I`m stunned that after years and years of activism, events, etc to bring attention to the issue of foreigners not being listed on juuminhyou - when the government finally took notice of the issue and brought out a plan to overhaul the entire juuminhyou system, getting rid of the "foreigner" registration system and putting everyone into the exact same database with the exact same records allowing foreigners to indeed be listed on the "new" juuminhyou....
Guess who is the biggest protester? Debito. Because apparently, even though foreigners should be treated the same as Japanese, we should be given special permission not to carry the same juuminhyou replacement cards as Japanese citizens because they have a chip in them. Thanks to him and the countless groups he rallied up (most of which were through his mailing list, telling everyone that the card was a way to keep track of foreigners...), I`m STILL not on the juminhyou even though it was scheduled to happen this year.

You can`t have it both ways. Either you want to be treated the same, or you want special treatment. Positive discrimination is STILL discrimination. I don`t want to be treated "the same but with bonuses" - it should be "the same" with good and bad.

[Tsuwabuki]

I do not think Japan is a bastion of racism, xenophobia, or second class conditions, but since we're on the subject... Warning, rant ahead:

I've said this before, but I am as far from a cultural or moral relativist as you can find. I'm actually a liberal, but I am still philosophically an "exclusivist." There is a laundry list of right and wrong, and every group of people, defined however they are defined as a group, has only part of the laundry list of right, but in no way does that make all views, no matter how sincerely held, equal.

Originally Posted by Nyororin

I don`t find gaijin offensive. Do you find the word "foreigner" offensive? It`s just the word "foreigner" in Japanese abbreviated a bit like every other longish compound word in Japanese tends to be. If you`re not Japanese, surprise surprise, you`re a foreigner.

Japanese as in nationally or Japanese as in ethnically? That is the crux of the issue.

As a matter of fact, I do find it offensive, and did long before I moved outside of the US, and while I will use the word in conversations here, I do so only because I feel I would not be understood otherwise. People who do not have citizenship in a country fall into three categories: Tourists, Legal Residents, and Illegal Residents. I refer to them by these names as much as I can, and find the word "foreigner" to be an outdated term that no longer represents the complexity of communication around the world. There are no more foreigners. Just national citizens. I usually refer to people in Japan who are not ethnically Japanese as just that, non-ethnic Japanese. Debito is a perfect example. He's Japanese, in the national sense. He's not ethnically Japanese, but he is a Japanese citizen.

Let's use "my country" (of course if I were to stay here 20 years, that could be debated): What do you call someone who moves to the United States to start a new life legally? You call that person a legal resident. What do you call a person the second after they swear an oath of allegiance to the US Constitution and gain citizenship? You call that person an American. Doesn't matter if that person has been an American for a second, or can trace their roots back to George Washington, or even back to Native Americans who lived in North America thousands of years ago. An American is an American is an American. I believe being equal in citizenship is an inherent part of being a citizen. God knows America has enough history of denying this inherency to Native Americans, African Americans, Hispanic Americans, and even certain types of "white" Americans, Jews, Slavic peoples, etc... That doesn't mean the definition of citizen has changed; it means that humans have systematically abused the definition. In the US and elsewhere.

Before someone says, "Well, that's just the law in the US vs Japan vs This Country Over Here," you must pay attention to the word inherent. No government may abridge this part of the definition of citizen. Inherency cannot be removed by fiat. Any government that does so is simply wrong.

On the subject of inherent: "form was treated as something intrinsic, as the very essence of the thing"- John Dewey

So I find the term gaijin offensive, although gaikokujin less so. Whatever the Japanese term for Legal Resident, that's what I should be called. If I was a Japanese citizen, however, I would be quite offended by the use of gaijin. Whatever else Debito may have said or done, this I agree with him on: He's Japanese. Ethnicity does not matter under the law. Only nationality does, and even then only to a certain extent. Inherent civil rights should not be denied to any person. Again, the US has had only a marginally better track record with this than anyone else, but inherency is supranationalist and rather held by humankind as a whole by virtue of being human.

In general, the great majority of the "no foreigners allowed" signs are at red light district places. Hostess clubs, soap lands, etc etc.

True.

I have never personally encountered any apartment discrimination, nor met someone in real life who was turned down. It`s a HUGE rumor sort of thing that you can`t rent an apartment in Japan.

Also true.

If you`re just in Japan for the short term and aren`t going to be in the country long enough to fulfill a lease - you`ll be turned down. If you do not have the job history to have "credit" - you will be turned down. By the way - to rent most apartments a normal Japanese citizen has to have been working for so long and have a huge advance payment. Places that don`t require this (the places that are generally popular with the foreigners in Japan) are pretty picky. They`ll turn you down for stupid crap like spotting pet hair on your clothes, etc, because you might violate the lease.

True again.

And there are literally TONS of cases of short term English teachers in Japan running off without paying their rent or utilities - and leaving their trash, furniture, etc in the apartment for the landlord to dispose of. These aren`t rumors. You can EASILY find advice on foreigners in Japan sites to just not bother paying the last month or two because no one will come after you once you leave Japan - from people who brag about leaving huge bills behind to screw the landlord because they thought the building or trash rules were stupid.

And by this time most people on this forum should know how much I despise people like that. This isn't a race or nationality problem. This is a stupid immature kids who don't take their position seriously. Thus making it much harder on the rest of us to get to the point where our civil rights are taken seriously. I do my best to dissuade people who are not clearly responsible adults from coming to Japan for work. The non-ethnic Japanese community in Japan has much too much to lose for these sorry children to be mucking around unsupervised.