Japanese houses, no basements

[Sashimister]

Originally Posted by steven

By the way, Sashimister, if I may ask, what are your feelings on this topic? I've never really heard of basements in Japan either. Do you know if there's a reason for that?

Simple!

Humidity and moisture in the earth result in molding quickly. Dig a 2-meter-deep hole in many parts of Japan and you will have a swamp in two hours.

Commercial buildings often have basement floors because they create a profit even at the cost of building with expensive ferroconcrete and 24-hour ventilation after completion.

Homes don't create a profit. You just spend, spend and spend to maintain them. Besides, many Japanese prefer living in wooden houses and it's just silly to build a wooden house deep in the earth with all that undrground moisture.

So, in Japan, it's simply cheaper (and far more realistic) to build a 3-story house than to build a 2-story house with basement.

[Nyororin]

It is my understanding that it has a lot to do with zoning laws and the limits of the amount of space allowed to be built on a property. We looked into building a house and I was wanting to build a basement - if only for the extra storage.

I don`t know how these limits work in other countries, but I`ll give my run down on it. In Japan, property has a set number for what you`re allowed to build. A pretty normal one is 60/200 for residential.
This means that you are allowed to cover 60% of the land with a building, and that the building can only have 200% the space of the land. So as a basic example... If the land is, say, 100 square meters - you must leave 40 of those open, and the building you put on it can only have 200 square meters of space.

The basement is counted in the total space of the building - but an attic/loft area is generally not. The difference is that the basement has to be a planned living area while the attic/loft/etc is an area that is almost necessary in most housing designs.

So if you had a basement under the foot of your entire house, either more than half the building would be underground (in the case of it being built on a normal 2 story footprint), or you would have a narrow 2+ story house that would need to be extremely small to make up for the lost space being used underground.

I wouldn`t want to have the size of my house cut to make a basement - and most people think the same way. Basements are usually limited to commercial structures that require very deep foundations to begin with, and that have a different zoning figure - 90/500+. When you do spot them in newer residential properties, it is usually a single underground room being used as a soundproof home theatre or for some loud hobby (houses built by families with a member into serious drumming/etc tend to like them).

[GoNative]

As I said earlier as far as I've found in my travels basements are most common in North America. Probably a number of reasons behind that including the type of heating systems (often big furnaces), in some areas where there is a high incidence of tornados a basement can save your life and back in the days at the height of the cold war having a basement as a fallout shelter was almost considered common sense. Not many other countries have the same combination of circumstances.

[steven]

Both of your posts are very insightful and seem to back up what that website was saying (even though that website was trying to sell the idea of a basement).

The mold thing was the first thing that came to mind for me-- that's kind of why I brought up ventilation. However, what confused me is that I know houses that have basements in America are in places that are humid (similarly to Japan). At least that's what I think I've heard. Like houses in the south or in "Tornado Alley". I guess those might be considered "shelters" moreso than basements though. I've heard of a lot of basements in the midwest as well, but I can't imagine the mid-west is as humid as Japan. I came from California, and people didn't really have basements there. I think that can be attributed to good weather and earthquakes (and in my area in particular, the land wasn't very stable because it was pretty swampy).

As far as the zoning thing that you are talking about Nyororin, I was thinking there might be something like that! That is very interesting. It seems similar to the rule that was supposedly changed in 平成6年 according to that website!

I've noticed something that is brilliant about older Japanese houses-- that is the ventilation. In the summer, a lot of houses are designed to be kind of "opened up". That is to say that you can open many sliding doors (or just take them down completely and store them in their special storage spaces). I think old houses face in a direction that is condusive to getting a good breeze as well... so what you get is like a jet stream of natural air conditioning. This natural air also allows for natural light. That combination equates to less mold and a really comfortable living area. Similarly, in the winter a lot of the rooms get closed off. However, the side of the house that faces the winter sun has its windows opened during the day which heats up the house in a natural manner. Not only that! (straying from the topic with this one) but one of my friends' houses has like a natural source of water in it (the water from the mountain ice flows down from the mountains and flows under ground to be shot up in different holes all over the place... and it's very pure water that can be drank... I think this is a pretty rare thing though). But ya, older houses have some really genious properties to them. Unfortunately (and perhaps ironically) some areas of older houses that were redone 30 or so years ago do have mold as well as other problems. Their wooden floors start to "sink" in a sense.

GoNative's post is pretty informative upon review. I think Hokkaido has less humidity than the rest of Japan, right? Maybe that and some different laws allow for what he refered to as a "sub-basement" (which is what the website that I found was talking about by the way).

Edit: GoNative, your new post is spot on, I think. I forgot about the "bomb shelter" aspect of the American basement.

[dirtyroboto]

When the Japanese build a new house they get a monk to perform a blessing ritual on the vacant lot. Kind of to ask god's permission to build there and also to ensure the land and house are free of bad energy.
Energy or in this case "bad energy" is the reason they don't want basements or cellars as part of the house.
For many Japanese, the idea of living underground is not good for the spirit. The sub-earth will drain your energy and impart bad energy to you, your house and your family.

Just having part of your home underground is like having a conductor of bad energy that will bring all manor of bad things to your family. This is how the Japanese think about these things.

By implication, if you store things in the basement they will collect bad energy. Everytime you need to remove an item from the basement, you will requre the presence of a monk.

[MMM]

But on the other hand, there is no problem building subways, parking structures, and complex shopping and business areas underground. Umeda in N. Osaka is great. Even if it is a torrential storm, you can spend all day shopping, eating, and playing without ever having to be hit by a drop of rain.

[dirtyroboto]

But you don't have to live there!

Subway ok!
Parking ok!
Shopping ok!

Part of the home, no way!!

[protheus]

Besides the "social" part, there is the water one, groundwater must be under the maximum depth of you basement, or you'll be having a nonstop swimming pool under your house instead of a basement for storage.
The next one is the mountain relief, which means rocks to crack, instead of earth to dig, that means very high costs for every cubic feet digged. Besides this, the walls of the basement need to be made from concrete, again adds some more costs.

[RickOShay]

Thanks everybody for your many insightful answers. I just found it funny that I could never seem to find anybody who knew a good reason behind it whenever it came up in conversation. The best I usually got was "only rich people have those"... which would mean either high cost to dig, hefty taxes, or "charge you up the butt because we can" construction companies.

[tinsol]

Originally Posted by steven

Both of your posts are very insightful and seem to back up what that website was saying (even though that website was trying to sell the idea of a basement).

The mold thing was the first thing that came to mind for me-- that's kind of why I brought up ventilation. However, what confused me is that I know houses that have basements in America are in places that are humid (similarly to Japan). At least that's what I think I've heard. Like houses in the south or in "Tornado Alley". I guess those might be considered "shelters" moreso than basements though. I've heard of a lot of basements in the midwest as well, but I can't imagine the mid-west is as humid as Japan. I came from California, and people didn't really have basements there. I think that can be attributed to good weather and earthquakes (and in my area in particular, the land wasn't very stable because it was pretty swampy).

As far as the zoning thing that you are talking about Nyororin, I was thinking there might be something like that! That is very interesting. It seems similar to the rule that was supposedly changed in 平成6年 according to that website!

I've noticed something that is brilliant about older Japanese houses-- that is the ventilation. In the summer, a lot of houses are designed to be kind of "opened up". That is to say that you can open many sliding doors (or just take them down completely and store them in their special storage spaces). I think old houses face in a direction that is condusive to getting a good breeze as well... so what you get is like a jet stream of natural air conditioning. This natural air also allows for natural light. That combination equates to less mold and a really comfortable living area. Similarly, in the winter a lot of the rooms get closed off. However, the side of the house that faces the winter sun has its windows opened during the day which heats up the house in a natural manner. Not only that! (straying from the topic with this one) but one of my friends' houses has like a natural source of water in it (the water from the mountain ice flows down from the mountains and flows under ground to be shot up in different holes all over the place... and it's very pure water that can be drank... I think this is a pretty rare thing though). But ya, older houses have some really genious properties to them. Unfortunately (and perhaps ironically) some areas of older houses that were redone 30 or so years ago do have mold as well as other problems. Their wooden floors start to "sink" in a sense.

GoNative's post is pretty informative upon review. I think Hokkaido has less humidity than the rest of Japan, right? Maybe that and some different laws allow for what he refered to as a "sub-basement" (which is what the website that I found was talking about by the way).

Edit: GoNative, your new post is spot on, I think. I forgot about the "bomb shelter" aspect of the American basement.

basements are more expensive.they are used to prevent freezing pipes. the temp below a certain level is a constant temp. the basement space is not conted in floor area in japan- that statement was incorrect. Some zoning laws have a height limit- 30 meters or less. tokyo is in the temperate monsoon area no freezing pipes. I heard in nagano pipes freeze all the time- annoying and dangerous with bursting pipes.

underground rivers? people use well water all the time.