Japanese purchase return policy

[MMM]

Originally Posted by RickOShay

Kind of a simplistic analogy, but I still feel customers have a right to be satisfied with the products they buy. And taking a look at many store return policies in America, I would say most other American consumers do too.

Customer satisfaction should be guaranteed. But if you but a DVD player to play Blu-Ray discs, who is at fault?

I think the consumer has some responsibility to purchase the item that he wants it to do. Now if the store staff says an item will do "X" and it doesn't, then of course the customer should be able to return it, but if you but a PS3 to play Halo, then I think "You are an idiot."

[RickOShay]

Originally Posted by MMM

Customer satisfaction should be guaranteed. But if you but a DVD player to play Blu-Ray discs, who is at fault?

I think the consumer has some responsibility to purchase the item that he wants it to do. Now if the store staff says an item will do "X" and it doesn't, then of course the customer should be able to return it, but if you but a PS3 to play Halo, then I think "You are an idiot."

Fair enough, and I do agree with you that some people are idiots, but policies need to be put in place to deal with all kinds of situations (and Japan is sadly lacking in these) say you bought a cheaper blender model (or one that was on sale) or something and the machine just does not perform the way you had hoped. Is the customer at fault for not throwing down more money on a more expensive one and taking a chance on one more within their budget at the time or whatever? Stores need policies in place to help ensure customer satisfaction.

[MMM]

Originally Posted by RickOShay

Fair enough, and I do agree with you that some people are idiots, but policies need to be put in place to deal with all kinds of situations (and Japan is sadly lacking in these) say you bought a cheaper blender model (or one that was on sale) or something and the machine just does not perform the way you had hoped. Is the customer at fault for not throwing down more money on a more expensive one and taking a chance on one more within their budget at the time or whatever? Stores need policies in place to help ensure customer satisfaction.

If a promise is made and the blender or DVD player does not perform as advertised, then of course it can be and should be returned.

However, if the cheaper model does not perform like the expensive model, that is not grounds for a free return, as obviously the consumer is delusional.

[JamboP26]

I was just reading about this yesterday. Apparently, its not encouraged, but legal if you produce the payment slip. ...And there is no damage to the product, that you have caused. You may get back some store coupons, so the shop doesn't lose out

[poq]

Originally Posted by MMM

It's a DVD player. It either plays DVDs or it doesn't.

You're so binary, m³ ;-)
The question was related to the Japanese law, as mentioned in the 1st post.

While it's not really the subject, some of the reasons that make me want to return the player:

1. The DVD/Blu-ray player is working, yes: images are superb, pretty sound, no problem with that. It works.

But

2. It is awfully slow to load a disc
3. During the load time ("Load" displayed), pressing "Play" (in advance to save a couple of seconds) seems to confuse the player that performs an Eject.
4. The fast search is slow and inconvenient
5. All in all, the response time from the remocon and player is slow
6. That brand used to provide some features for DVD players that are not available anymore on the new models ("Play" to go back 10 seconds etc...)...

Again, it is working, the problem is the design, the ergonomics.

I must agree that the features and performance of a device are a pretty subjective matter. Unfortunately, the posts I read from my iPhone in the shop were rather positive. Some people mentioned briefly the points above, but nothing really alarming.
From my point of view, those points are important, because I owned a DVD device (5 yo) of the same brand with much better ergonomics.

Therefore, satisfaction is also a subjective matter.
And as long as the customer claims are confirmed, they should be enough as a proof to allow the return of the device.

If you are satisfied as long as it is working, thanks to you brands feel less the need to put any effort in ergonomics/design/speed/programming/performance.

[RickOShay]

Originally Posted by poq

You're so binary, m³ ;-)
The question was related to the Japanese law, as mentioned in the 1st post.

While it's not really the subject, some of the reasons that make me want to return the player:

1. The DVD/Blu-ray player is working, yes: images are superb, pretty sound, no problem with that. It works.

But

2. It is awfully slow to load a disc
3. During the load time ("Load" displayed), pressing "Play" (in advance to save a couple of seconds) seems to confuse the player that performs an Eject.
4. The fast search is slow and inconvenient
5. All in all, the response time from the remocon and player is slow
6. That brand used to provide some features for DVD players that are not available anymore on the new models ("Play" to go back 10 seconds etc...)...

Again, it is working, the problem is the design, the ergonomics.

I must agree that the features and performance of a device are a pretty subjective matter. Unfortunately, the posts I read from my iPhone in the shop were rather positive. Some people mentioned briefly the points above, but nothing really alarming.
From my point of view, those points are important, because I owned a DVD device (5 yo) of the same brand with much better ergonomics.

Therefore, satisfaction is also a subjective matter.
And as long as the customer claims are confirmed, they should be enough as a proof to allow the return of the device.

If you are satisfied as long as it is working, thanks to you brands feel less the need to put any effort in ergonomics/design/speed/programming/performance.

MMM> these are the kinds of satisfaction issues I was referring to, and what I kind of figured this persons problem was with the player. Issues not based in advertised features, but in programming and design, speed, general performance etc, etc.

In the case of the blender, what if no claims are made of the performance levels between models, features are listed, prices are different, and performance level is ambiguous (as it would be with many similar products and brands), is that still the customers fault?.. the thing did not perform as hoped, plain and simple. The customer is not satisfied, are they still not allowed to return the product in your book?

Unfortunately poq you might be out of luck. Japan has great customer service but when it comes to satisfaction issues, return policies, and dealing with things after the fact, I find most Japanese consumer outlets score a 0 out of 10 in my book. It is abysmal, and makes me be annoyingly extra cautious when buying anything of significant value here.

[poq]

Originally Posted by RickOShay

Japan has great customer service but when it comes to satisfaction issues, return policies, and dealing with things after the fact, I find most Japanese consumer outlets score a 0 out of 10 in my book.

Japanese honne and tatemae plays an important role in this behavior.
Most people in Japan won't get the benefits they could to the extent of the law.

This is the reason of a by law question - not the Japanese way: what do Japanese in such a situation is not always the best option.
I'm a gaijin anyway and the shop got that fact pretty quickly :-)

Well, I think I'll try a return tomorrow.

[dirtyroboto]

With the larger chains I have had no trouble with returns, they infact normally give a 10 day cooling off period but this does also mean that you should not damage the packaging too much.
Just last week I upgraded my router for one that cost ¥15000 from PC depot. When I got it home I found that I could not flash DD-WRT to it.
I took it back within two days and got a no questions asked cash refund.

On the other hand I bought a device for ¥9800 in Akihabara on the main drag. These guys know that most people can't come back so tend to sell them returns or duff products.
The owner was being an ass and refusing to accept the return. I knew the owner could speak English so I told him I would stand outside his shop telling tourists he sold bad stuff. At that moment a Korean guy and his wife were in the shop, looking to buy the same model I was returning.
I started to tell the guy not to buy it as it was defective and he should go someplace else to buy it.
The owner pretty much shoved my refund into my hand and told me never to come back I agreed with him and will never return to that con artist shop.
BTW, I had bought from there before and had the good sense to try it out before getting my train. I waited in the shop while they had to open over 5 boxes to find one that worked!!!
I should have learned the first time.

[poq]

Originally Posted by dirtyroboto

On the other hand I bought a device for ¥9800 in Akihabara on the main drag. These guys know that most people can't come back so tend to sell them returns or duff products.

Thanks for the anecdote.
I can probably expect a tough discussion tomorrow...

[MMM]

Originally Posted by poq

Thanks for the anecdote.
I can probably expect a tough discussion tomorrow...

Did you buy this Blu-Ray player in Akihabara?