How do you make a failure into a Japanese resident?

[RealJames]

I came to Japan on a whim, I liked anime a little.. and video games... but, I also like a plethora of things from other places, Japan was as good as any other place to me.

I applied for jobs programming in Japan cuz computer science is my degree, then I found out what the hours were and scrapped that idea.

I found out that "teaching" English in Japan is by and large a joke (I'm not talking about JET, I'm talking about English conversation schools). The people I worked with had little or no training, were generally really dumb, and sold their appearance and accent for 2000yen a lesson.

Then I left Nova, and went to a more respectable school, where the teachers were smart, knew their material, how to teach it, and cared about it.

The big English schools such as Nova, ECC, etc are like McDonalds.
Other private English schools are like fine cuisine restaurants.

Saying teaching English in Japan is a farce is entirely true if you have only experienced the McDonalds "Cooks".
If you meet the (granted fewer in numbers) fine cuisine "Chefs" of the industry you'd realize that a salty deep fried piece of potato isn't all there is to eating in Japan.

To the OP:
get a degree in anything, if you want to be good at teaching, then get a degree in teaching (shocking isn't it) or even English.
ride the ELT wave for quick cash and no prospective future
become a happy white sheep among many others who have had the same idea as you

oh also, Japan is not all it's made out to be, your childhood dream might get crushed to bits when you get here.

[WingsToDiscovery]

Originally Posted by MMM

When people ask me about physics, religion, politics, my opinion gets second fiddle because these aren't the topics I am an expert in.

We're talking job prospects, not world views.

Originally Posted by MMM

every foreigner in Japan is in Japan because of JAPAN! That's reality. I knew many people who were looking at teaching English anywhere in Asia, and Japan is where they ended up. To them, Asia was pretty much all the same, so it didn't matter. For me, it was Japan or nowhere (I didn't study four years of Japanese to be sent to Taiwan).

Of course not. But as my disclaimer said, you'll never beat outliers. I don't know why people have to bring it up. All things equal, you'll never satisfy anyone's opinion.

The only reason I brought up Japan is because we're on Japan forum. I'd love to give S. Korea or Singapore a shot, but I happen to be in Japan right now because it was a convenient way to get to Asia as well as getting to be in a modernized city. Regardless, these people you speak of still came to Asia to see asia, not to teach. Teaching was just a viable option for them to get over here, and that's a fact. That's why we have people come here every day asking about how to get teaching jobs in Japan. It's a surefire visa. If it didn't matter where they went to, that all the more affirms my point.

Originally Posted by MMM

, Wings, but that is so elitist and condescending. Indeed I came to Japan to be in Japan, but also to see if I liked teaching, and the JET Program gave me that opportunity. Being a JET is an assistant teacher, but it is still teaching.

I don't think we're on the same page. I don't really have any beef with JET. At least they try and have the ALT thing kind of working. What I'm more referring to are eikaiwas like NOVA/GEOS who got shut down for bankruptcy, embezzlement, etc. Sounds great, huh?
But it's not elitist or condescending. Just like how you studied Japanese with the goal of getting to Japan, people go to school to be teachers if they really want to teach. How is that any different?
Read what you said though. You came to Japan through the Jet program to see if you wanted to test out teaching? How the hell does that make sense? They just hire you without any teaching qualifications because you feel like trying it out, and it will get you your visa? So it's a game? If you don't like it, you can just quit? And you've wasted some poor family's money who was expecting a quality learning experience? Once again, this isn't necessarily directed at Jet, but the entire industry.

I'm not going to kid myself and say I'm a "teacher" if I get some sh*tty job regurgitating mock conversations out of a textbook. That's a disservice to those who actually have a passion for teaching.

[Columbine]

Originally Posted by shoutaro

So, what should I take in college then? And it needs to be four years? I can't do any 2 year courses?

1) If you want to teach, do a teaching degree. As someone else said, it's obvious. 4 years.

2) Try and pick up some japanese, or at least a second language. Improve your own English.

3) Try and find a college with an exchange program to Japan and then get yourself on it. You will have a chance to experience the country without the full investment of moving there to work long-term. Some people find they actually really don't like living there.

4) Get experience. ANY experience will help. If you can afford the time to, volunteer. Try and do something your degree won't give you exposure to. Like if you're focussing on teaching high-school kids with your degree, do your other work with toddlers. Or the elderly. Work with the disabled. It'll broaden your bases. Check out local town/city halls, scouting or girl-guide groups, community centres. They're usually very grateful for help and you can use them as references.

5) Don't give up. Japan may or may not happen for a while, but if you can work your way through the next few hard years for that degree, there are other countries and other schools that will most definitely take what you can offer. For now just focus on finding some stability and setting a few small targets for yourself; getting back into high-school for a start. The rest will follow.

[princessmarisa]

I hate to be a voice of doom but I just get one very strong vibe throughout this.


Why do you think living in Japan will be any better/will be the solution to your life of misery?

I would hate for your to spend all your effort and life working towards getting to Japan, get there then realise it isn't all you presumed and life is tough anywhere.

It is good to have a goal and many of the things on the path there will be useful in other ways, so in general aiming for a degree and such is good, but consider other options of making a success of yourself in your own country too.

Rich, successful Japan-lovers can go to Japan twice a year or more on holiday and have all the fun sides of the country they want

[shoutaro]

Originally Posted by princessmarisa

I hate to be a voice of doom but I just get one very strong vibe throughout this.


Why do you think living in Japan will be any better/will be the solution to your life of misery?

I would hate for your to spend all your effort and life working towards getting to Japan, get there then realise it isn't all you presumed and life is tough anywhere.

It is good to have a goal and many of the things on the path there will be useful in other ways, so in general aiming for a degree and such is good, but consider other options of making a success of yourself in your own country too.

Rich, successful Japan-lovers can go to Japan twice a year or more on holiday and have all the fun sides of the country they want

I never said Japan was my life solution, I didn't even imply it. Think about it this way, I'd rather wither away in Japan, than in America. Japan is my final destination. Before I die, that's where I want to live. It has nothing to do with my 'life of misery'. No one, absolutely no one, can dissuade me from it, so I hope I don't get anymore replies like this.

[spicytuna]

Originally Posted by shoutaro

Japan is my final destination. Before I die, that's where I want to live. It has nothing to do with my 'life of misery'. No one, absolutely no one, can dissuade me from it, so I hope I don't get anymore replies like this.

It sounds like you're determined. That's good!

Now put that determination into obtaining a college degree!

[MMM]

Originally Posted by WingsToDiscovery

Regardless, these people you speak of still came to Asia to see asia, not to teach. Teaching was just a viable option for them to get over here, and that's a fact. That's why we have people come here every day asking about how to get teaching jobs in Japan. It's a surefire visa. If it didn't matter where they went to, that all the more affirms my point.

I know plenty of people who can to Japan to TEACH, not came to JAPAN to teach. JET is a great way to get real classroom experience without having a master's degree or teaching certificate, and it looks good on a resume, especially of one stays for more than one year.

Originally Posted by WingsToDiscovery

I don't think we're on the same page. I don't really have any beef with JET. At least they try and have the ALT thing kind of working. What I'm more referring to are eikaiwas like NOVA/GEOS who got shut down for bankruptcy, embezzlement, etc. Sounds great, huh?
But it's not elitist or condescending. Just like how you studied Japanese with the goal of getting to Japan, people go to school to be teachers if they really want to teach. How is that any different?

I only really know the JET program, but it is condescending to say "If you want to be a teacher, then get the proper education, but don't come to Japan to do it. JET is basically an apprenticeship, and not all of the people on the program are weeaboos and bad teachers that don't care about their schools or students.

Originally Posted by WingsToDiscovery

Read what you said though. You came to Japan through the Jet program to see if you wanted to test out teaching? How the hell does that make sense?

Hundreds of people do it every year.

Originally Posted by WingsToDiscovery

They just hire you without any teaching qualifications because you feel like trying it out, and it will get you your visa? So it's a game? If you don't like it, you can just quit? And you've wasted some poor family's money who was expecting a quality learning experience? Once again, this isn't necessarily directed at Jet, but the entire industry.

Again, I don't know about anything besides JET, but I think you are oversimplifying my statements and the English education industry. No, I was not hired just because I wanted to try it on like a jacket in a suit shop. JET is not throwing people into classrooms with a piece of chalk and a text book. Like I said, it is an apprenticeship. Rarely was I "alone" in a classroom without another teacher. Obviously I had to show a real interest, energy and dedication to my interviewers to get hired. I stayed as long in Japan and at my school as the program allowed at the time. It is made clear from the beginning if you quit before your contract is up you are going to make real problems and headaches all around.

The reason young graduates are hired for these kinds of jobs is they have the ability to actually go. It may be a kind of discrimination, but bringing a single graduate to Japan and housing them is much cheaper and simpler than bringing a college professor, his wife and their three kids.

I don't know what you mean by game, but right after college is many people's only chance to "see the world" before settling down.

Originally Posted by WingsToDiscovery

I'm not going to kid myself and say I'm a "teacher" if I get some sh*tty job regurgitating mock conversations out of a textbook. That's a disservice to those who actually have a passion for teaching.

If all you do is regurgitate mock conversations out of a textbook, I wouldn't call yourself a teacher either. However if you work with your colleagues well, make lesson plans that will stimulate students interest, take time after school to help kids one-on-one, participate in school activities and clubs with pride and enthusiasm, then I think you can call yourself a teacher.

[WingsToDiscovery]

Originally Posted by MMM

I know plenty of people who can to Japan to TEACH, not came to JAPAN to teach. JET is a great way to get real classroom experience without having a master's degree or teaching certificate, and it looks good on a resume, especially of one stays for more than one year.

For every one person you know who's here to teach, there are a hundred who aren't. You pretty much run this place; how many people like OP have you seen since you've been here? Thousands? On this forum alone. People inquiring about moving to Japan and immediately jump to qualifications for being a "teacher."

Originally Posted by MMM

I only really know the JET program, but it is condescending to say "If you want to be a teacher, then get the proper education, but don't come to Japan to do it. JET is basically an apprenticeship, and not all of the people on the program are weeaboos and bad teachers that don't care about their schools or students.

I still don't think it's condescending at all. You go to school to teach if you want to be a teacher. On the job training in a few weeks is a slap in the face to those who actually have teaching degrees and spent years working on them.

Originally Posted by MMM

The reason young graduates are hired for these kinds of jobs is they have the ability to actually go. It may be a kind of discrimination, but bringing a single graduate to Japan and housing them is much cheaper and simpler than bringing a college professor, his wife and their three kids.

Of course, I actually think they even have an age stipulation. But hiring an unqualified, fresh out of school student over someone who's older but may have more qualifications, simply because it's economical is hardly a good point.

Originally Posted by MMM

I don't know what you mean by game, but right after college is many people's only chance to "see the world" before settling down.

People with more interest in seeing the world than what they've been hired to do.

Originally Posted by MMM

If all you do is regurgitate mock conversations out of a textbook, I wouldn't call yourself a teacher either. However if you work with your colleagues well, make lesson plans that will stimulate students interest, take time after school to help kids one-on-one, participate in school activities and clubs with pride and enthusiasm, then I think you can call yourself a teacher.

That is assuming the majority of people are like this, which they're not. But you really did sidestep my issue. It's so unfair that Japanese people are paying ungodly amounts of money to be "taught" English by people who don't even have any teaching qualifications.

[bELyVIS]

I was recruited to work for a Japanese company and really never thought about living in Japan before. My going there was all about the money offered. While I loved Japan, it wasn't as easy to live there as other foreign countries I lived in before.
If you really want to go don't let anyone tell you you can't. But you do need to work to get there. Think about the title of this thread, would you want a failure to move into your country? Work if you want it.

[MMM]

Originally Posted by WingsToDiscovery

For every one person you know who's here to teach, there are a hundred who aren't. You pretty much run this place; how many people like OP have you seen since you've been here? Thousands? On this forum alone. People inquiring about moving to Japan and immediately jump to qualifications for being a "teacher."

We'll have to agree to disagree, I guess. Just know that the people that take teaching more seriously don't hang out in gaijin bars and all-you-can-drinkers.

Originally Posted by WingsToDiscovery

I still don't think it's condescending at all. You go to school to teach if you want to be a teacher. On the job training in a few weeks is a slap in the face to those who actually have teaching degrees and spent years working on them.

JET is a paid apprenticeship. What is so insulting about that? People that WANT TO BE TEACHERS join the program. If you don't want to be a teacher, you don't join JET. Forty hours of your week is spent at school.
If it can give future teachers training, help students learn English, and overall improve Japanese students' comfort with foreigners, where is the insult?

Originally Posted by WingsToDiscovery

Of course, I actually think they even have an age stipulation. But hiring an unqualified, fresh out of school student over someone who's older but may have more qualifications, simply because it's economical is hardly a good point.

You are very feisty today, Wings. I like that.

You say "unqualified" with authority, but if the Japanese government says someone is qualified, who are you to say that is wrong?

And they aren't hiring young people because they are smarter than older people. They hire them because they have mobility that older people with homes, spouses, families, pets, etc. don't.

Originally Posted by WingsToDiscovery

People with more interest in seeing the world than what they've been hired to do.

I don't understand what you are saying here.

Originally Posted by WingsToDiscovery

That is assuming the majority of people are like this, which they're not. But you really did sidestep my issue. It's so unfair that Japanese people are paying ungodly amounts of money to be "taught" English by people who don't even have any teaching qualifications.

I didn't say a majority of people are like this, but I am not sure how you are qualified to say a majority are not.

Again, I worked for JET, and I don't know anything about the private eki-mae eikaiwa schools. My salary was paid for by the prefectural government, and not out of pocket.

Define "teaching qualifications", as you seem to have a definition in your head that does not match that with those who actually hire English teachers in Japan.