Teaching in Japan, Underage and Unqualified: Is it possible?

[MMM]

Originally Posted by BobbyCooper

Why is that? I thought they would welcome you with open hands after your last post?? What about 6 months instead?

Also if you could tell me this.. wich area in Tokyo do you believe would be the best too look out for a teaching job? Or are schools everywhere?

Because who wants to spend the time and resources hiring someone who is going home in 90 days?

And the best place to look for a school in Tokyo to teach at is "outside of Tokyo".

[BobbyCooper]

Originally Posted by MMM

Because who wants to spend the time and resources hiring someone who is going home in 90 days?

And the best place to look for a school in Tokyo to teach at is "outside of Tokyo".

Oh thats good to know!

Well, she said that they Love to hire people with a Working Holiday Visum because it would be so easy for them to do so. But like the Working Holiday Visum already says, it's not only a Woking Visum. It's more desinged to fiance your stay too keep on traveling. So to be longer than 3 months in a contract situation with a school, is already quite some time.

And because people said it was so easy to hire somebody with a WHV.. so why do they make it that complicated then?

But anyway, what about 6 months instead?

[MMM]

6 months is better than 3. 12 is better than 6. We don't have WHV in the US, so I am not so familiar. If Nyororin says it is true, I'd believe her.

And it's not complicated, it is just 90% of foreigners wanting to teach English in Japan only consider Tokyo.

[MMM]

Originally Posted by pintofsleep

Hi here is an article I read earlier this year about Visa problems.

I hope this can help you. There is a list of people you can talk to for legal advice too.

Next time don't multilink to your blog which links to an article. Just post the link to the article, please.

2011 Guide to Visa and Immigration in Japan

[Nyororin]

Originally Posted by BobbyCooper

Why is that? I thought they would welcome you with open hands after your last post?? What about 6 months instead?

MMM pretty much answered this... But I`ll add so that I can sort of give more flesh to what I originally said.

Schools aren`t quite like fast food joints. They don`t want just ANYONE to work there for ANY period of time.

When choosing a teacher for a position, they will often happily choose the working-holiday visa holder over someone who requires a work visa when they are competing for the same position.
This is because of what I wrote earlier - the school doesn`t have to go through the pain of getting them a visa, they don`t have to be responsible for them, etc.... Not to mention that having the working holiday visa means that they are already in Japan and on site.

But note that I said when competing for the same position.

A work visa is something that starts at a year. If a school needs someone for a year, 10 or 11 months on a working holiday visa is an alright compromise. The advantages outweigh the month or two earlier that they`d need to find a replacement. No school is going to consider hiring someone on a work visa for a year if they only need them for 3 months.
If they are looking for someone for that short of a period, a working holiday visa holder will NOT be competing with the pain of getting a work visa. They`ll be competing with other people who already have some valid means of being in Japan - in other words, everyone will be on the same footing in terms of company responsibility. In this scenario, the working holiday visa can actually be at a disadvantage. Long term residents (whether PR visa or spouse) may be available for a longer term if needed. Those who already have a work visa but who are looking for something short term for extra cash already have experience under their belts... If you take the "we don`t need to get them a visa, they`re already in Japan, and we won`t need to be responsible for them!" out of the equation - where is the advantage?

I know of several schools that do their best to only hire working holiday visa holders. But it is for long term positions. 9 to 12 months sort of thing. Finding ANY school in need of an "up to 3 months" teacher itself is going to be pretty close to impossible - working holiday visa or not isn`t going to make a bit of difference.

[BobbyCooper]

Originally Posted by MMM

6 months is better than 3. 12 is better than 6. We don't have WHV in the US, so I am not so familiar. If Nyororin says it is true, I'd believe her.

And it's not complicated, it is just 90% of foreigners wanting to teach English in Japan only consider Tokyo.

I agree with you, it's weird that everyone (including myself) wants to start in Tokyo for what ever reason it might be.. but for me actually this is really not important at all. Osaka for example would be just as good if not much better like you mentioned!

It's a decision I have to make based on people like you, who have the experience and knowledge for what is better. Because then I would book my Plainticket directly to Osaka.

Originally Posted by Nyororin

MMM pretty much answered this... But I`ll add so that I can sort of give more flesh to what I originally said.

Schools aren`t quite like fast food joints. They don`t want just ANYONE to work there for ANY period of time.

When choosing a teacher for a position, they will often happily choose the working-holiday visa holder over someone who requires a work visa when they are competing for the same position.
This is because of what I wrote earlier - the school doesn`t have to go through the pain of getting them a visa, they don`t have to be responsible for them, etc.... Not to mention that having the working holiday visa means that they are already in Japan and on site.

But note that I said when competing for the same position.

A work visa is something that starts at a year. If a school needs someone for a year, 10 or 11 months on a working holiday visa is an alright compromise. The advantages outweigh the month or two earlier that they`d need to find a replacement. No school is going to consider hiring someone on a work visa for a year if they only need them for 3 months.
If they are looking for someone for that short of a period, a working holiday visa holder will NOT be competing with the pain of getting a work visa. They`ll be competing with other people who already have some valid means of being in Japan - in other words, everyone will be on the same footing in terms of company responsibility. In this scenario, the working holiday visa can actually be at a disadvantage. Long term residents (whether PR visa or spouse) may be available for a longer term if needed. Those who already have a work visa but who are looking for something short term for extra cash already have experience under their belts... If you take the "we don`t need to get them a visa, they`re already in Japan, and we won`t need to be responsible for them!" out of the equation - where is the advantage?

I know of several schools that do their best to only hire working holiday visa holders. But it is for long term positions. 9 to 12 months sort of thing. Finding ANY school in need of an "up to 3 months" teacher itself is going to be pretty close to impossible - working holiday visa or not isn`t going to make a bit of difference.

Oh ok, I now understand what you meant by that! However, do you always need to sign a contract? But even in a contract situation, you could always leave right?
Because that would mean that I could always tell them that I am available for the entire year.. not only 3-6 months. Nobody could force me to stay there any longer and nobody would even know that I lied in the first place.
Does this make the WHV superior again??

Also if you could give me your opinion as well, would you also recommend me to ignore Tokyo right away for a teaching job? And look out in a different city like Osaka for example?

[Nyororin]

Originally Posted by BobbyCooper

Oh ok, I now understand what you meant by that! However, do you always need to sign a contract? But even in a contract situation, you could always leave right?

A lot of places will want you to sign a contract of some sort. It all really just depends.

Because that would mean that I could always tell them that I am available for the entire year.. not only 3-6 months. Nobody could force me to stay there any longer and nobody would even know that I lied in the first place.
Does this make the WHV superior again??

No, it does not.
Do you really think that places who regularly hire WHV holders wouldn`t think of this? They will definitely confirm your passport (for visa status) and in the schools I know of, they require you to live in their housing and show proof of departure date.

Also if you could give me your opinion as well, would you also recommend me to ignore Tokyo right away for a teaching job? And look out in a different city like Osaka for example?

If you`ve heard of it, choose somewhere else.

[MMM]

Originally Posted by BobbyCooper

Because that would mean that I could always tell them that I am available for the entire year.. not only 3-6 months. Nobody could force me to stay there any longer and nobody would even know that I lied in the first place.
Does this make the WHV superior again??

I am fascinated by how many people can consider and engage in this kind of bait and switch with no consideration to the money, time and energy a school goes into the hiring process, and more importantly, what happens when your students show up to class and you are on a plane home.

As Nyororin said, this happens often enough that employers are very careful in their hiring.

And people wonder why some landlords don't like renting to foreigners.

[BobbyCooper]

Originally Posted by Nyororin

A lot of places will want you to sign a contract of some sort. It all really just depends.



No, it does not.
Do you really think that places who regularly hire WHV holders wouldn`t think of this? They will definitely confirm your passport (for visa status) and in the schools I know of, they require you to live in their housing and show proof of departure date.



If you`ve heard of it, choose somewhere else.

If I heard of it? What do you mean by that?
Could you tell me wich city you would prefer to look out for a teaching job? Or would you even recommend me something smaller?

I just would like to get your opinion!

So what are exactly the conseguences for me then? You can't tell me they would boot me out of Japan for staying a little shorter.

Originally Posted by MMM

I am fascinated by how many people can consider and engage in this kind of bait and switch with no consideration to the money, time and energy a school goes into the hiring process, and more importantly, what happens when your students show up to class and you are on a plane home.

As Nyororin said, this happens often enough that employers are very careful in their hiring.

And people wonder why some landlords don't like renting to foreigners.

I Love Japan and the lovely people who live overthere and it would really hurt me too to do this and just leave earlier. But I Love Japan that much, that I would like too see some more from this country and don't spend my entire WHV in a big city like Osaka or Tokyo. It's really not worth it!

It would really pain me to do something like this, to the Japanese people.. but if I have no other choice, what should I do. And I don't want to work somewhere else and do a different job. It's one of my biggest dreams to work as an English teacher in a country like Japan.

Also I really don't think you correctly understand the meaning of the Working Holiday Visum. It's really not at all designed too work! It's only there too support yourself so that you are able keep on traveling. Cause the Holiday in WHV should always stand out the most and goes for the Japanese as for the traveler. Everybody who deals with the WHV knows this and also the teachers in Japan must know this.

Also like Nyororin mentioned a couple posts back.. they love o hire people with a WHV because it just makes things much easier for everybody. Because of that I am going to assume, that most likely 90% of them if not more only work a short period of time.. cause otherwise it wouldn't be a WHV anymore.

Also, would you recommend me Osaka more? Or perhaps even a much smaller city??

[Nyororin]

Originally Posted by BobbyCooper

If I heard of it? What do you mean by that?
Could you tell me wich city you would prefer to look out for a teaching job? Or would you even recommend me something smaller?

I mean just what I said.
There are a number of well known cities in Japan. 90% of the people who want to teach English in Japan tries to move to these cities.
However, there are a lot more other cities in Japan, full of people and opportunities... but because no one has heard of them, or they aren`t the "cool" places to go in Japan - almost no one tries to move to or work in most of them.

So basically, if you`ve never heard of it and it`s a decent sized city - you`ll find far more opportunities with less competition there.

But I Love Japan that much, that I would like too see some more from this country and don't spend my entire WHV in a big city like Osaka or Tokyo. It's really not worth it!

Then don`t. No one is going to force you to do so.

It would really pain me to do something like this, to the Japanese people.. but if I have no other choice, what should I do. And I don't want to work somewhere else and do a different job. It's one of my biggest dreams to work as an English teacher in a country like Japan.

If it is your dream to work as an English teacher, then go through the normal routes to become a teacher - not a WHV.

Also like Nyororin mentioned a couple posts back.. they love o hire people with a WHV because it just makes things much easier for everybody. Because of that I am going to assume, that most likely 90% of them if not more only work a short period of time.. cause otherwise it wouldn't be a WHV anymore.

Once you have the WHV in hand, what you do with it is really your own business. It is easier for a school to hire someone who is on the WHV for a year than get a working visa for someone. It`s not the school`s business to plan your holiday.
Most of the people working on the WHV that I have had contact with were working for 9+ months, and doing "tourism" on their days off and after their work term ended.

You are talking about blatantly lying and deceiving a school. No matter what your visa is, if you tell them you are available for a year of work then run off - you have deceived them.
If you only want to work in little bouts here and there... LOOK FOR LITTLE JOBS HERE AND THERE. You will have considerably fewer opportunities when compared to looking for longer positions, and the WHV won`t provide an advantage, but at least be honest.

Nowhere have I even so much as implied that a WHV gives an advantage when looking for very short term positions. I have only said that it is an advantage when you are competing for a LONG TERM position. It won`t give you an advantage for a short term position. That`s life - deal with it. Don`t go lying for your own personal satisfaction. It`s incredibly childish, selfish, and flat out disgusting.