How to become a citizen or naturalize?

[steel]

Originally Posted by brianypopmusic

....
Do we live there five years, then apply, or do we apply first in order to live there, then live for set amount of years, then apply for final citizenship? How does it all work?

What is the difference between becoming a permanent resident vs naturalization?

....

Becoming legally Japanese

Becoming legally Japanese: Questions

Becoming legally Japanese: FAQ: Which is more difficult: permanent residency or naturalization?

[glowsilver]

Originally Posted by Nyororin

I have to prove that I am a first child, that my parents were not married and divorced prior to my birth. I have to prove birth order for my siblings (as they go on the record too) and I have to prove that I have no additional siblings. I have to provide records of the birth of my parents, and records of their marriages and divorces. I also need detailed records of all of my addresses from birth to present....

Just on a note of personal interest: I've heard there are forms for your parents to sign to state whether or not they had any more children, etc. Is that still the case and, if so, what happens if one or both parents is dead/missing?

[Nyororin]

Originally Posted by glowsilver

Just on a note of personal interest: I've heard there are forms for your parents to sign to state whether or not they had any more children, etc. Is that still the case and, if so, what happens if one or both parents is dead/missing?

You hunt them down or you`re out of luck, from what I can gather.

I imagine that there may be some level of exception that can be made if you can prove they`re dead, but as Japan keeps very detailed records of people I think there is an expectation that you`ll be able to find someone in the same sort of way in other countries.

In my case, getting birth certificates from my siblings (with the mother clearly listed to match my own) and record of my mother`s tubal litigation was enough to show where my siblings on that side ended... But as I have no way to contact my father or the brother I know I have on that side - it means a trip to the US to hunt them down.

[Koroshiya]

Originally Posted by Nyororin

Although this may be a personal question - what are your reasons for deciding that naturalization would be superior to permanent residency in your case?

I`ve started, and (temporarily aborted due to financial constraints) the naturalization process, so will add what I know to the requirements.



Five conscutive years as a self sufficient adult (supporting yourself financially) with a steady job on a visa other than "student" or a dependent of anything other than a citizen. You can technically get by with 3 years as a dependent of a citizen.



If you are too young to have the 5 years of self sufficiency, you pretty much have to be a dependent of a citizen.



Not quite - you can have a minor record. It is the type of record that matters - apparently minor offenses don`t count against you.



If you did okay for 1, unless you have lost your job, you should be fine with this one.



I have always heard this one as more to do with lifestyle than straight language ability.



A big point to remember with this one - if they don`t think that you are likely to give up your other citizenship/s, they will not grant you Japanese citizenship.



Fortunately, and unfortunately, it is not. Those are the requirements for being eligible to apply. The actual process after you apply is a different matter entirely.

Being married to a Japanese citizen, having Japanese ancestry, having children who speak only Japanese, only being able to speak Japanese fluently, owning property in Japan, etc, are things that seem to make a difference. You prior visa history also seems to make a difference - someone who has gone through, say, a student vise → work visa → permanent residency visa is more likely to be looked on favorably than someone who has just been in Japan on a work visa. You don`t technically have to have a permanent residency visa, but there is no doubt that it goes a long way toward showing your commitment to remaining in the country.
Another big factor that comes into play is how likely they think you are to leave Japan (a big reason for keeping a previous citizenship, for example) - something that goes hand in hand with how likely you are viewed to vote with interests other than those of Japan in mind. You may find this a significant wall - if you and your wife are both from another country, the roots you have laid down in Japan are likely to be considered more shallow than the roots of family and past you have left in another country.
They also judge how likely you are to use your acquired citizenship as a foothold to bring others in your family (who now have direct blood ties to a citizen) into the country.



When it comes to non-Asian, not-born-in-Japan applicants... there are only a handful of applicants a year. I recall reading that there are less than 20 applicants a year, and only 5 or so are granted. It is a very individualized process. It is completely case by case.



I have never heard this, and it was never mentioned in my case.



More like "have the skills, the job, and proof of stability in that position".

----

The big bottleneck for me has been the required documentation and paperwork dealing with the US side. This requires multiple trips to the US - something that we can`t really afford.
You need a LOT of documentation. You have to create a family record that is as detailed as those for the rest of the population... Some of this documentation simply doesn`t exist in other countries.

I have to prove that I am a first child, that my parents were not married and divorced prior to my birth. I have to prove birth order for my siblings (as they go on the record too) and I have to prove that I have no additional siblings. I have to provide records of the birth of my parents, and records of their marriages and divorces. I also need detailed records of all of my addresses from birth to present....

The list goes on and on. Thank god I am not an only child as there is NO WAY to prove you are an only child based on US records.

My parents are divorced and my father is, well, I don`t really know where. Scraping together records of his marriage/s and divorce/s, and proof of no other marriage/s and divorce/s is NOT easy. It`s virtually impossible with family I do still have contact with.

Even with the easy ones, a lot of these records you have to be present to obtain.

The costs of documentation and paperwork caused the process to jerk to a halt in my case.

In regards to why we decided to choose Naturalization is, essentially... 1) Lack of re-entry permission. 2) Not possible to be deported. 3) Right to vote.

To us, these appear to have the potential to be quite a hassle. Not to mention that PR requires 10 years of residency as opposed to naturalization's 5-year requirement. Now, all that said, if the naturalization process proves to be more hassle than its worth, we'll shoot for PR after that. All the while, re-applying for naturalization until eligible for PR.

That being said, our minds may change entirely after the schooling has finished. However, I am a future-planner, so this is all in an effort to be prepared for if we do decide to take that plunge. I'm not one to pass up the opportunity if it has the potential to arise.

And I want to thank you for the information regarding lineage documentation. Unfortunately, both my parents are dead but I have loose contact with my younger siblings. The hard part will be contacting my step-siblings. Aside from that, if the Consulate here in America can tell me exactly what documentation I will need to have (prior to leaving) I can attempt to preempt the process a bit.

Is there any other information that you believe would be valuable to my situation?

@Blimp
Yes, I am fully aware of what terms of eligibility are. I posted my concerns due to conflicting information and want for clarification. That is all.

[Nyororin]

Originally Posted by Koroshiya

In regards to why we decided to choose Naturalization is, essentially... 1) Lack of re-entry permission. 2) Not possible to be deported. 3) Right to vote.

Out of curiosity - Do you plan to be leaving the country with enough frequency that the re-entry stamp is going to be an inconvenience?

Are you planning to do something that could prompt deportation? Most deportations are related to overstaying a visa - there is no chance of that with a PR visa.

All the while, re-applying for naturalization until eligible for PR.

The naturalization process isn`t a cut and dry, turn your papers in and get an OK or a refusal. Think of it more like... Turn your papers in and wait. And wait. And wait... Possibly for years before hearing back from immigration.

There is a big reason why PR is a whole lot more popular than citizenship - it is, in reality, much easier and quicker to get. I have never heard of anyone who wasn`t eligible for PR being able to get citizenship. You may have missed out on it in my original post, but you`re still going to need to be in Japan for 5+ years on something other than a student visa (what your wife will have if she is there studying). It isn`t written, but is sort of unspoken that it`s "at least 5 years on a PR visa, 3 years on a spouse visa with 5+ years of marriage".

Truly being eligible for the 5 years seems to require some significant contributions to the country (or Japanese heritage, although I think that this has less weight than it did in the past). Think of it was the absolute earliest you can be considered - not "If I have 5 years, I can get citizenship".

A further question - I am curious on your reasons for considering giving up citizenship in your home country for that of Japan... Particularly when it appears that you have not lived in the country yet, and, as of this point have no family ties to the country. Until you give up citizenship in your former country, Japan can revoke your citizenship - so you will indeed need to give it up within a certain time frame.

Is there any other information that you believe would be valuable to my situation?

Something that concerned me a bit - you say your wife will be attending school in Japan... But what about you? What is your visa status going to be?

[Koroshiya]

Originally Posted by Nyororin

Out of curiosity - Do you plan to be leaving the country with enough frequency that the re-entry stamp is going to be an inconvenience?

Are you planning to do something that could prompt deportation? Most deportations are related to overstaying a visa - there is no chance of that with a PR visa.



The naturalization process isn`t a cut and dry, turn your papers in and get an OK or a refusal. Think of it more like... Turn your papers in and wait. And wait. And wait... Possibly for years before hearing back from immigration.

There is a big reason why PR is a whole lot more popular than citizenship - it is, in reality, much easier and quicker to get. I have never heard of anyone who wasn`t eligible for PR being able to get citizenship. You may have missed out on it in my original post, but you`re still going to need to be in Japan for 5+ years on something other than a student visa (what your wife will have if she is there studying). It isn`t written, but is sort of unspoken that it`s "at least 5 years on a PR visa, 3 years on a spouse visa with 5+ years of marriage".

Truly being eligible for the 5 years seems to require some significant contributions to the country (or Japanese heritage, although I think that this has less weight than it did in the past). Think of it was the absolute earliest you can be considered - not "If I have 5 years, I can get citizenship".

A further question - I am curious on your reasons for considering giving up citizenship in your home country for that of Japan... Particularly when it appears that you have not lived in the country yet, and, as of this point have no family ties to the country. Until you give up citizenship in your former country, Japan can revoke your citizenship - so you will indeed need to give it up within a certain time frame.



Something that concerned me a bit - you say your wife will be attending school in Japan... But what about you? What is your visa status going to be?

As I stated previously, in regards to Blimpy, I am fully aware of what terms of eligibility are. I was also aware that the student visa would not count towards the requirement for naturalization. Due in case, such details are irrelevant to us. We will wait as long as necessary. And again, as I have already stated, I am merely collecting information to preempt the process and make it smoother one all-around. Ultimately, whether I go for naturalization or PR will depend on the outcome of the former. I am infinitely patient, so if naturalization turns out to be more hassle than it is worth, then by the time I am eligible for PR I will apply for that instead. It matters not which one I end up with, however I do have preference.

My reason for considering giving up my current citizenship is simple: I have nothing to keep me here. I am going to reboot my current situation and start from scratch. That includes leaving and not returning. Should I decide that Japan is not the place to do this, I will adjust my situation accordingly. The time that I am there for my wife's education will suffice as a trial period.

As for my visa, I have a year to figure that out. If I am not mistaken, the Global 30/MEXT will take care of that. Again, I will figure that part out when the time comes. I have plenty of it.

[samokan]

Hi , I know you are gathering information. So let me just put some examples for your reference.

Friend 1: Got a Naturalization in Less Than 8 years.

She graduated in a Japanese University with a degree of Computer Science/Engineering.
Worked in a Japanese Company afterwards.
JLPT level1.
Proficient in both written and reading Japanese.
Married to a Japanese and have a kid with him.
She got her Visa because of her skill.
Self-sufficient.

Friend 2: Got a PR for more than 30years of Living in Japan

She got married to Japanese and had a kid with him.
Spousal visa all the time.
Can speak Japanese but not on a business level.
Can barely write and read Japanese.
Pass JLPT 2 before applying for PR visa.
Worked Part-Time most of the time.


Both friends were married to Japanese nationals, so it shortens the time requirement. But other than that it all comes down to skills and your contribution to the country.

Personally , I have been in Japan for 7 years now and have an Engineer Visa. I usually get 1 or 3 years visa and the re-entry permit has the same span as my visa and I never had any problem with that.
Anyways, my case is not the same as yours.
Of course, there are also issues regarding the countries culture.. etc but I supposed you have already thought about them.

Anyways, good luck

[evanny]

btw. do you have to take a test like when trying to get american citizenship (which 40% of americans can't pass ) ?
or is it just your performance as a self-sufficient individual that matters?

[Kayci]

Originally Posted by Nyororin

The big bottleneck for me has been the required documentation and paperwork dealing with the US side. This requires multiple trips to the US - something that we can`t really afford.
You need a LOT of documentation. You have to create a family record that is as detailed as those for the rest of the population... Some of this documentation simply doesn`t exist in other countries.

I have to prove that I am a first child, that my parents were not married and divorced prior to my birth. I have to prove birth order for my siblings (as they go on the record too) and I have to prove that I have no additional siblings. I have to provide records of the birth of my parents, and records of their marriages and divorces. I also need detailed records of all of my addresses from birth to present....

The list goes on and on. Thank god I am not an only child as there is NO WAY to prove you are an only child based on US records.

My parents are divorced and my father is, well, I don`t really know where. Scraping together records of his marriage/s and divorce/s, and proof of no other marriage/s and divorce/s is NOT easy. It`s virtually impossible with family I do still have contact with.

Even with the easy ones, a lot of these records you have to be present to obtain.

The costs of documentation and paperwork caused the process to jerk to a halt in my case.

Okay, lets say I want to grow through this process...all of my siblings are half siblings. My dad has My sister, A brother, and me. We all have different mothers.

My mother has two other brothers and me. We all have different fathers. I am the youngest of all of them, overall, but will this present complications?

[Nyororin]

Originally Posted by Koroshiya

And again, as I have already stated, I am merely collecting information to preempt the process and make it smoother one all-around.

This is not bad thinking at all, but something you should definitely be careful about - most of the documents required are time sensitive. I was asked to produce documents that were dated within 6 months of my application. It would be unfortunate to get a bunch of documents ready... And have them be useless. Gathering information and researching how to get the documents is definitely something that it cannot hurt to begin early.

My reason for considering giving up my current citizenship is simple: I have nothing to keep me here. I am going to reboot my current situation and start from scratch. That includes leaving and not returning. Should I decide that Japan is not the place to do this, I will adjust my situation accordingly. The time that I am there for my wife's education will suffice as a trial period.

I believe this is something that may be concerning some of us. There are a LOT of people who want to move to Japan. There are a lot of people who feel that moving to the country will give them a great new start. The majority of them are completely ready to leap into citizenship.

And the majority of those who do live in Japan usually do not end up wanting to stay in the country permanently... This is particularly true when they a) Start out without Japanese language skills and b) Do not have family in Japan. (By marriage or blood relation.)

Japanese does not appear to be an easy language to pick up in adulthood, and being in a home situation where the household language is something other than Japanese makes it even harder.

Obviously, as there is such a long wait before you`ll be eligible for either PR or citizenship, it would be impossible to leap into either of them... And I am sure you will have more than enough time to figure out your feelings on living in the country permanently... But there are more than enough cases of people who think that Japan will be where they want to live, only to find they do not feel that way at all once they`ve lived here and experienced the difficulties of being immersed in a foreign culture with no escape. It makes me, at least, feel very iffy on simply encouraging someone to plan to take citizenship before they`ve even lived in the country.

As for my visa, I have a year to figure that out. If I am not mistaken, the Global 30/MEXT will take care of that. Again, I will figure that part out when the time comes. I have plenty of it.

I see. If they are taking care of it (I`m guessing you`d end up a family stay visa linked to your wife`s student visa) then you shouldn`t have much to worry about. Other than, well, what you`ll be doing if you`re not attending school. You can`t work on that visa, so will have a lot of free time.

Originally Posted by evanny

btw. do you have to take a test like when trying to get american citizenship (which 40% of americans can't pass ) ?
or is it just your performance as a self-sufficient individual that matters?

There is no test, but they do talk to you in 100% Japanese - and all the paperwork must be done in Japanese. I hear there is a home visit in the last stages of the process, but I have yet to get that far.

Originally Posted by Kayci

Okay, lets say I want to grow through this process...all of my siblings are half siblings. My dad has My sister, A brother, and me. We all have different mothers.

My mother has two other brothers and me. We all have different fathers. I am the youngest of all of them, overall, but will this present complications?

As you`ll need documentation for all of this, the more complex your family situation the more documentation you will need. Whether this is a "complication" or would have any connection to your chances for approval - I have no idea.