University Degree: Good Rule or Bad Rule?

[godwine]

Originally Posted by Ronin4hire

It will never happen in England. Your country relies too much on the cheap labour it imports from Eastern Europe/Africa/Middle East etc. to do all the stuff that you don't want to do for a fraction of the price.

Slightly off topic, but....I don't think North America is any different, thats why all the off shore outsourcing.. its not even things that people don't want to do, its jobs that people can have and WANT to have but are out sourced for a fraction of the price

[Ronin4hire]

Slightly off topic, but....I don't think North America is any different, thats why all the off shore outsourcing.. its not even things that people don't want to do, its jobs that people can have and WANT to have but are out sourced for a fraction of the price

It's a good point as I think it's touching on a similar incentive that businesses and companies and ultimately governments competing in a world economy have.

More relevant examples would be the way in which illegal immigration is exploited the even the relative ease one can migrate to the USA legally (compared to Japan).

The green card lottery for example (If you haven't heard of it, the USA holds a lottery open to foreign nationals, the prize being a US green card)

[MissMisa]

Originally Posted by Ronin4hire

It will never happen in England. Your country relies too much on the cheap labour it imports from Eastern Europe/Africa/Middle East etc. to do all the stuff that you don't want to do for a fraction of the price.

Oh - I know it won't, but I wish it did.

Also, it's not because the people in our country don't WANT to do these jobs, it's just they can get others to do them for a fraction of the price. To be honest though, our minimum wage is fairly high and I doubt we are making huge savings by having foreign workers, though to be honest I don't know enough about it to comment fairly.

[godwine]

Originally Posted by MissMisa

Oh - I know it won't, but I wish it did.

Also, it's not because the people in our country don't WANT to do these jobs, it's just they can get others to do them for a fraction of the price. To be honest though, our minimum wage is fairly high and I doubt we are making huge savings by having foreign workers, though to be honest I don't know enough about it to comment fairly.

As reference only:

Minimum wage in Canada is about 7 dollars/hr, that will equate to about 14000 dollar a year for someone working full time - 40 hours work week, 50 weeks a year (assuming 2 weeks vacation)

An average test engineer or software development engineer's salary is approximately 45000 - 65000 a year. BUT, thats just salary alone. So let say, on an average about 5000 a month per staff... in the case of the company i work for, we estimated that each staff cost us about 12300 a month, that includes their salary (The said 5000), associated insurance, real estate and other operational cost

NOW, if we outsource this job to a foreign country, let say India or China, the cost will come down to about 4000 a month. Even if we request to have the staff sent over here temporarily (just a temporary work visa),the cost will only go up to about 7200 a month...

[Polar]

Minimum wage in Ontario, Canada is $10.25 and has been for a bit.

[godwine]

Originally Posted by Polar

Minimum wage in Ontario, Canada is $10.25 and has been for a bit.

Thanks Polar, that will change the base number i was using.. sorry for the misleading info guys, haven't been following on the minimum wage for a while

at 10.25 an hour, yearly wage will be about 20500, assuming 40 hours workweek and 50 weeks in a year

The rest of the stat will be the same.. thats roughly how much i was paying my guys before...

[Sangetsu]

A surprising number of foreigners in Japan do not have a degree, probably more than half. The majority of these are married to Japanese citizens, or working in fields in which they qualify for a visa without a degree (like chefs or cooks). And then there are others who are business owners who have incorporated in Japan and were able to get "investor" visas for themselves.

Perhaps Japan's degree requirements will motivate more students to go to college.

[Sangetsu]

Originally Posted by Polar

Minimum wage in Ontario, Canada is $10.25 and has been for a bit.

Funny, there was a time when I used to think that $10 an hour was pretty good pay. Nowadays working full time for that amount wouldn't even pay my rent... I can't imagine the convenience store clerks here in Tokyo getting by on 600 to 800 yen per hour.

[acjama]

I also wanted to add my two cents (the European ones), but then I noticed I'd be just echoing Godwine-san.

I've been in Japan for four years, just got married and since my second radioactive fallout seems to be lamer than my first (please do NOT call me lucky), extended my visa too. I got my M.Sc before coming, and I also find no rapport with people who dismiss education. I am very experienced in my relevant field, and 100% convinced that nobody would have let me accumulate that relevant experience without the M.Sc. I would not have met dozens of Japanese exchange students and gotten the idea of going to work to Japan, had I worked at McDonalds or something straight after high school instead of working hard in the university.

Education and experience are not sugar and salt, they are two separate things, except that accumulation of experience speeds up tenfold when one has a degree to open those flood gates.

Further, "education" has a specific meaning (many, in fact) with standards, but "experience" has not. "Experience of doing what, and by who's standards?" is very valid question. University students also need to pay rent, go shopping, clean house and relax, just like "experience-claiming" people do.

I didn't come to Japan to change it. I'm simply not interested in changing others to my own image. Japan have strict rules, but they can be played with, and that's often fun to everybody's advantage. I.e. my application for visa renewal was accepted in four days with no questions asked instead of the advertised 1-3 months inspection. I don't know how long it should take, but a Japanese Visa lawyer was astohinsed by this. But I have no delusions of what my M.Sc. degree (and the accompanying letter in Japanese) played in it.

[Umihito]

Originally Posted by WingsToDiscovery

Funnily enough, you're exactly right. At least at my school, which is about 30-35% American, I'd say pretty much everyone I know (including myself) come from either the northeast coast US (from Maryland all up through the New England states) and from the very west coast (many people from California and Washington). Both Harvard and Yale are in the New England states
There are people here and there who may be from some random middle America state, but it's hardly a mixed bag. It's not too surprising though because most of the education comes from the areas highlighted anyway.

Probably a stupid question, but what kind of school is your school? International university? English language?
I'm guessing it's because they're the most culturally mixed areas, too. California gets Japantown and most of the Anime fests and Japanese tourists and stuff, with East Coast states not far behind.
Of course, that's just my guess, it could be for any reasons.
Ahh I see. For some reason I never pictured them all the way up there. :L

Originally Posted by MissMisa

I strongly agree with it and I wish England had it. It would mean that only the most educated of people are able to live in the country and that they would usually always have something interesting to offer the country they wish to reside in.

In England (and the UK in general), the number of people attending higher education in recent years has strongly increased, probably due to finances being more readily available and more advertising of University's. Since the new government took over and tripled the Uni fees for 2012, I expect there will probably be a sharp decline however in the next few years.

Yes, I do think we should follow that example. It's just too bad about the whole cheap labour thing you said about. :/

It's strange though. I agree that there are increasing numbers going to uni, but I still hear that lots and lots of people are still being turned down after an overcrowded, strenuous selection process. I'm not sure if that's because they're popular universities or not though.

Originally Posted by Sangetsu

A surprising number of foreigners in Japan do not have a degree, probably more than half. The majority of these are married to Japanese citizens, or working in fields in which they qualify for a visa without a degree (like chefs or cooks). And then there are others who are business owners who have incorporated in Japan and were able to get "investor" visas for themselves.

Perhaps Japan's degree requirements will motivate more students to go to college.

Can you give a source or somewhere where you saw this? I honestly haven''t seen anywhere that's given a number of people with degrees there, so it'll be interesting to read.
A surprising conclusion though. I would have thought that the amount of people there on a spousal visa would be very very low, seems as a marriage takes a lot, lot longer to achieve and more commitment in most cases.