how bad is sexism and prejudice in Japan?

[jasonbvr]

It is not about doing a task. It is about fitting into the entire work environment. They expect you to know things and act a certain way. Meetings, negotiations, interviews, decision making and just about every aspect of business has a certain way it should be performed.

Take for example the exchange of business cards. When exchanging cards with a prospective client or seller, you extend the card out in front of you holding it with both hands. Exchange the cards simultaneously while you both bow to each other. Do not place the card in your pocket or billfold. Also immediately after you are given the card inspect it thouroughly front and back. Be sure to pay special attention to the rank of the person you have just met and adjust your speech to the proper level of formalness or lack thereof. If you are not the highest ranking employee representing your company and somehow you just greeted the top gun from the other company prior to your superior doing so, congratulations you've just lost your job! When you entered the room you should've known automatically by the arrangement in which they were sitting who was the lead representative. You being lower level should greet the representatives of similar rank and file before moving to the head honcho.

I couldn't make this sort of stuff up if I tried. Japanese are just that meticulous (or is the word ridiculous).

Let me give you an idea of top professions for foreigners in Japan: #1 Language instruction #2 Executive recruiters #3 Entertainers (musicians, hostesses) #4 Egineering (computers or other technologies) #5 Those employed by international firms who have been placed in Japan #6 Those who are employed by Japanese firms having been recruited from overseas #7 Entrepreneurs

As far as racism, I've never met a Japanese person who fears foreigners. If anything at all, Japanese are much more interested, engaged and friendly with the foreigners that share this country with them than anywhere in Europe or the States. If I said that there were no racists in Japan, I didn't mean to. There certainly are some, but being Japanese they are relatively polite about it.

The idea I am simply putting forward is that most people are decent human beings. On an person to person basis, I don't really see all this deeply ingrained hate for one group or another. For those who do have these types of feelings, why should I even bother trying to change or worry about the perspective of someone as ignorant as that.

When I first came to Japan, I use to rant and rave about things like this all the time. After a while though, you just have to accept that this is Japan and it will be whatever Japanese want it to be.

The women's issue is whole different thing that I can't really speak to. Yeah it's there. The thing is a lot of Japanese women kind of like the way things are. They also understand that the way to make social changes in Japan has to be slow and relatively quiet. Putting on a show and burning bras will only hurt the cause. Once again, its just the way it is because its Japan.

[Hatredcopter]

Occam's Razor - "All things being equal, the simplest solution tends to be the best one."

That's generally how it goes in Japan. Take a gaijin and a Japanese person with equal skill and equal attitude regarding a job position. The Japanese person is often likely to be hired, unless its a job such as teaching English or translation.

I know a few guys in the translation industry in Japan, and what I hear from them is that Japanese tend to be very difficult learners of English. In other words, it's easier for a foreigner to become completely fluent in Japanese than it is for a Japanese person to become completely fluent in English. That said, most of the well-paid translators in Japan are foreign, and they translate from Japanese to English.

Getting down the point, any job that involves
A)Teaching English
B)Doing translation work (whether it be patents, academic journals, manga, etc)
C)International activities
D)Academics + related jobs

will be easier for a gaijin to get than other jobs. With other jobs, you may have a tougher time, because Japanese companies want Japanese workers - there's no communication problems, there's no having to deal with 'unexpected gaijin behavior' and so on. Can gaijins get jobs that don't involve the above categories? Sure they can. It just might be a little harder to get than if they were in America, and their Japanese skill would likely have to be top notch.

I would also like to add that the vast majority of the Japanese public generally accepts what happened in Nanjing, as well as the comfort women issue and all that. It's the bigheaded, conservative politicians in Japan that are being so stubborn on those issues, and thats why the media covers it so often.

[jasonbvr]

One more thing about foreigners working in normal careers in Japan, Japanese companies prefer to hire employees fresh out of school who they can mold and shape into what they want. Employees then spend the rest of their lives (usually) slowly working their way up.

[Nyororin]

Why is it that Kawaiineko always posts with this condenscending air of "I already know everything and have researched everything, but am just going to ask anyway." If you think you know everything then why ask? Seriously, the attitude really annoys me.

I`ll answer this just to get a lot of the silliness and misperceptions out of it.

Just keep mace/pepper spray on you because I heard us female get raped easier in Japan. I heard usually the cops won't do anything about it.

Actually, no. Rape is very rare. Date rape is the most common type of rape in Japan, and even it is rare. Obviously *females* get raped more easily than males - it`s that way in EVERY country.
You can feel safe walking around dark alleys alone at night. The cops generally won`t touch date rape cases, as there is always a lot of hearsay involved - "She agreed to it?!?" "No, he forced me!" blah blah blah. And no real way to tell which side is telling the truth.

I heard groping is very common and it isn't illegal?

No, it`s very illegal. If you`re accused, you`re pretty much tried and convicted that very day, lose your job, and basically have your life ruined. Women falsely accusing men to get money out of them is actually a pretty big problem. That certainly wouldn`t be the case if it were legal.

From what I HEARD they view females as an inferior gender when compared to males (in other words it's a male dominated society; women are important to them sure, but they have their place). I'm merely asking is this just a stereotype or not?

I covered this quite in depth in another thread - Here is what I said there (Or at least in the most recent incarnation of the same explanation.)
A lot of the "women treated unfairly" stuff is really a myth based on misinterpretation. I`ve covered it a lot in other topics, but basically from a "western" viewpoint, it seems that no one can believe a woman would ever possibly CHOOSE to leave her job and stay at home once she is married/has children. In their eyes, it looks to be "oppression"... Even though the women choose to do so of their own free will. So this big "women are inferior in Japan!" talk spreads. Most women choose to stay home with the kids. Some don`t. Most women are content to take a lower salary because of the lack of strings attached to it - if the company is paying you a lot there is a lot more pressure to continue working... They`ve invested a lot in you. But if it`s lower to begin with (I`m talking like 85% of the average male salary, not like incredibly low), there is very little pressure to keep working once you decide to quit for family reasons. Employers expect it, so everyone parts on good terms. There are companies out there that pay women full salaries - sometimes in the same company there will be two standards - and those are the type of women who generally continue to work. The only reason the lower salary is more common is because the women themselves PREFER it as it takes the pressure off of them in the future.


I`ve never met a man who has actually thought women were inferior. Even the older generations - they are wane to put responsibility on young women who join companies - mainly for the reasons I have quoted myself about. This doesn`t mean they think they are inferior. It means that they know from experience what generally happens. Superior/inferior has virtually nothing to do with it.

My husband is Japanese, quite traditional, from a traditional family, raised in a small village pretty much isolated from city influence.
He doesn`t think I`m inferior, and is in fact quite jealous of the choices available to me. He is expected to work, but I can choose to either stay home, work, continue my education, etc.
Even in the village where he was raised, it`s generally the women who are actually in charge.

However Japanese need to understand that some foreigners are highly capable to do the same jobs that Japanese can do. To just judge gajin and assume they're not capable of doing a job (they don't have the skill or knowledge because they're not Japanese) well that's really not fair and it's not even ethical morally.

What is saying that they don`t? Most of the time foreigners DON`T speak the language well enough to do anything but cause problems in a regular company. The problem isn`t with the race/nationality of the person, it has to do with the simple question of whether they can communicate well enough to understand their job and to work as part of a team - communicating with their superiors and co-workers. I know some non-Japanese who work in Japanese companies quite normally with no problems at all. They speak Japanese fluently. I myself have worked a number of *normal* jobs here in Japan - but am also fluent.
If you can`t speak to your co-workers, you`re going to have trouble. If you can`t read paperwork, or write it, you`re not going to be hired. As most foreigners cannot do this, it is pretty safe for the company to take your race as an outward sign that they need to be careful.

Not racially prejudiced? They have a fear of foreigners which tends to make them bias.

I have yet to meet anyone that acted at all afraid of me here in Japan. However, I did encounter some people who were afraid of my husband based on his race when we visited the US, as well as plenty of people who were afraid of my black friend`s father - in the US.

They view males as the superior gender. Who do you think primarily dominates Japanese society when you look at the genders? Female or male? If you're going to say that they have no prejudice at all in their culture then you're probably wrong.

I guess 10 years of living here means ABSOLUTELY nothing. You haven`t even *been* to Japan, and yet you purport to know EVERYTHING about life here. Guess I should listen to you to find out what it`s *really* like here.

Really - you ask questions, and then get angry at anyone that gives you an answer that is at all different from the one you want/expect based on your out of date research.

Because from what I've heard, throughout history Chinese have frequently invaded Japan and tried to make at as part of their country if you will.

Actually, China has never invaded Japan.

Chinese hate the Japanese because they used many Chinese refugees as comfort women (sex slaves). They promised food to them if they returned the to their place of shelter, although it had been burned down to the ground by Japanese. They basically just gave an empty promise as bait to lure them. They raped Chinese and Koreans until they could get no more pleasure from them sexually then killed them. They essentially treated them like slaves in every meaning of the word; and they did it mostly to Chinese and Korean women they saw them as beautiful and sexually attractive. Most Japanese won't even acknowledge that they did such horrendous things to Chinese and Korean, so I can understand why Japanese have left a bad
taste in the mouths of Koreans and Chinese, why they don't trust them, and why they're a wee bit bitter.

It seems that you want more to insult Japan than to actually learn anything about it. There is so much wrong in the above quote that I don`t even know where to begin. I suggest you actually do some real research on history. You know, the stuff with actual documentation, which isn`t the ranting of some online site. You do realize that they were at war fighting in China and Korea, right? Do you really think that attractiveness had anything to do with ANYTHING?
You do realize that 1) "comfort women" were already employed as prostitutes by people in their own countries. and 2) They were paid and not killed. (Some were even able to save up tons of money) - really, even Korea (which hates Japan) agrees with those points. Japan in general is NOT in denial over most of this, if any.

I`ll bet you also believe that all Japanese schools uses that one textbook that there was an uproar about. (They don`t.)

Do you actually want to live in Japan? Because it really seems like you dislike pretty much everything about Japan - whether it is based in fact or not.

[luna2]

Originally Posted by kawaiineko

I'm a female, which in many ways will not be to my advantage moving to Japan. They view males as the superior gender in Japan (actions speak louder then words; I hear with a woman pursuing a career there is what is known as a "glass ceiling"). I'm also a foreigner which will not prove to be to my advantage.

Granted with the trouble Japanese have had with foreign countries in the past (U.S. during WWII and China) I can understand to an extent. However I'm just wondering how judgmental Japanese will look at you regarding these topics. Lucky me, I fit under both categories so the odds are kind of against me.

I know for the most part, Japanese is not a melting pot; they tend to be homogeneous group of people. Foreign is different, and people fear what they don't understand, which is probably a large reason of why prejudice and sexism exist.

Traditionally women haven't played the role of working outside the house, helping to bring income to the home (at least not in Japan) until recently. Some Japanese are probably more set in their ways then others regarding this change (I know Japanese have many traditions in their culture, some being a daily part of life, which they view as sacred)

wow u seriouse?!!!!
well cant they change-everyone knws som things are scary rather its of wat u can understand and of wat u cant...
its life!!!!!!get use to the fact there are different types of races and sexes

[kawaiineko]

First off i never claimed to know everything you jerk. I never said I did. I said Japanese fear foreigners because they've had bad experience in their history with foreigners. I said that possibly that could result to possible prejudice in Japan. I was asking how bad it actually was, if it was true or if it was just stereotypes. I didn't know whether it was true or not, that's why I asked. You have no right to make assumptions about me when you don't know the first thing about me. People here HAVE said that sexism is prevalent in Japanese culture to an extent because of the glass ceiling thing with careers and females.

I didn't say I know everything; that's your perception. You judging me and making assumptions about me is really beginning to annoy me too!

You assume I've done research on every single aspect of Japanese culture when I haven't! The reason I made this post to begin with was to find out how true it was regarding prejudice and sexism in Japan. Obviously prejudice is a stereotype; they fear foreigners rather then act bias and condescending toward them.

I've done SOME research I haven't done all of the research. What I said was merely my own perspective on it from what I've heard from other people; I then interpret it the best I know how from my own personal view. Essentially it's my opinion; fyi genius an opinion isn't fact, it's just what a person THINKS personally on a subject you baka!

Yeah I've never moved to Japan but just because I have my own perspective based upon what I've heard doesn't necessarily mean I'm right. As said before the reason I started this post was so I could find out if sexism and prejudice run rampant in Japan like many gajin think. I want to see how true it was.


Go screw yourself baka and stop making assumptions about me.

[Nyororin]

Originally Posted by kawaiineko

First off i never claimed to know everything you jerk. I never said I did.

First of all I`ll say I don`t want this to dissolve into a flame war, and I don`t plan to respond to this in an angry way. I will simply point things out in a factual way. You can choose to accept them or not.

You never say "I know everything." However, you do repeatedly say "I know" something or other. This is saying that you know something. As you say that repeatedly on just about every part of your message, it implies that you know about all the things you are "asking" about.

I said Japanese fear foreigners because they've had bad experience in their history with foreigners. I said that possibly that could result to possible prejudice in Japan. I was asking how bad it actually was, if it was true or if it was just stereotypes. I didn't know whether it was true or not, that's why I asked.

Yes, but you say (And I quote)

Not racially prejudiced? They have a fear of foreigners which tends to make them bias. They view males as the superior gender. Who do you think primarily dominates Japanese society when you look at the genders? Female or male? If you're going to say that they have no prejudice at all in their culture then you're probably wrong.

That doesn`t sound like "I don`t know if this is true or not." You are saying that Japanese people DO have a fear of foreigners. They DO treat women as inferior. And if anyone says that you are not right, that THEY are wrong.
I say this is wrong, and I say it based on experience. Therefore, the attitude in statements like that frustrates me because it implies that you know something which you clearly do not.

You have no right to make assumptions about me when you don't know the first thing about me. People here HAVE said that sexism is prevalent in Japanese culture to an extent because of the glass ceiling thing with careers and females.

And I have done my very best to explain these things, as (as far as I can see) these statements are coming from either a) people who have never been to Japan, or b) Men who don`t know how Japanese women actually feel or think about these things. (and who admit it)

I didn't say I know everything; that's your perception. You judging me and making assumptions about me is really beginning to annoy me too!

If you don`t want people to think you are saying that you know all these things, then please stop saying "I know this" or "I know that" - especially when you really don`t. I do indeed agree that you don`t know much about Japan. It`s just the way you write it that is irritating to me. If you want to know something, ask a question, don`t say "I know this" and then expect an answer that fits perfectly inside of what you say you know.

You assume I've done research on every single aspect of Japanese culture when I haven't!

I haven`t assumed anything like that. I am only assuming that you actually meant "I know" when you typed it. It is clear that you don`t actually know these things, as your information is incorrect. I will ask again, politely, that you not say "I know such and such" when you do not know whether it is true or a total fabrication.

they fear foreigners rather then act bias and condescending toward them.

And again, despite two people - who both are actually IN Japan - telling you so far that Japanese people do not fear foreigners, you state it as a fact. No one fears foreigners here. But yet, you somehow refuse to accept this. Most likely because you "know" that they do fear foreigners. This is what frustrates me. People are answering you, telling you that it isn`t the case, and you STILL state that you KNOW it`s true.

Essentially it's my opinion; fyi genius an opinion isn't fact, it's just what a person THINKS personally on a subject you baka!

Yes, but an opinion isn`t generally stated as fact - You normally say "I have heard" or "I think" or "It`s my opinion that..." NOT "I know".

Yeah I've never moved to Japan but just because I have my own perspective based upon what I've heard doesn't necessarily mean I'm right. As said before the reason I started this post was so I could find out if sexism and prejudice run rampant in Japan like many gajin think.

That is perfectly fine. I have no complaints with the reason for this thread - my complaint is that you won`t believe anyone when they tell you that your opinion/perspective isn`t actually true. Which is why I asked why you even asked - if the answer doesn`t go along with the opinion you have formed, you ignore or discount it.

Go screw yourself baka and stop making assumptions about me.

I`ll pass on the screwing myself part.

[Hatredcopter]

I should also like to add that only 10% of the posters on this forum have actually been to Japan, and probably only about 3% have ever lived there for a reasonable amount of time. It's terribly difficult to get a good perspective on Japan if you've never set foot on one of their islands. Point is, even though there are some people here who know a lot about Japanese culture, only those that have lived in Japan should be the ones that you trust regarding 'living in Japan' questions.

Despite their good intentions, many people get skewed perspectives about Japan either from media or just from heresy and rumor. Just because AnimeDude22 says that Japanese fear foreigners, doesn't mean it's true.

[jasonbvr]

Also many people who have been on JF for a reasonable amount of time have seen and responded to these issues over and over again.

So try not to take it personally when people get really passionate about their opinions.

[kawaiineko]

I said I know it's true AFTER people living in Japan clarify this to me. I said "I know this" because it's what I've been told, it's what I ASSUME to be true ( I don't know whether it's right or wrong, that's why I ask). Did you happen to miss the part where it said that all of that was my opinion, and I just said that when "I know about this or that" with Japanese culture that's it's my opinion (doesn't make it right or wrong).

I TOLD people I didn't know whether it was true and that I wasn't trying to start things. If people become oversensitive and react in a wrong way, that's not my fault; I can't wave a wand and control how receptive they'll be to reacting to what is being typed. This is what is being told to me.

I made this post to see how true the rumors of racism and sexism are in Japan. I believe (are you happy now or are you going to verbally attack me and lecture me for this too) were in Japan that sexism does exist in Japan because of the glass ceiling in Japan.

I believe men in Japan do view themselves as the superior gender, because it's how they're raised and it's what the culture tells them, so it influences them. I could be wrong with all of this because when I say "I know" it's how
I'm phrasing what I believe based upon what's been told to me. It's my opinion I didn't say it was right or wrong.

Oh and nyorin some of the quotes you posted earlier were from a completely different person on this forum. Those words weren't typed by me with some of those phrases. Oh yeah with the last part if you know anything about the English language is called sarcasm. I really don't like you; you've made assumptions about me and judged me ever since I came to this forum. You don't agree with what I say, fine. That doesn't give you the right to act like a jerk to me, that's why I get angry with you. To me you're a judgmental condescending ass.

Oh and what I tend to do in Japan falls under two of the job categories recommended for
foreigners: entertainer, hostess and entrepeneur. Believe it or not when people don't act like complete jerks to me and don't incessantly ASSUME things about me (judging me as a result; oh since when did nyorin take the position of God? we'd all be screwed if you were God)