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07-04-2007, 12:55 AM
Am I the only boy talking here!?! well anyway kawaiineko good luck in japan! I hope your okay but you should know every country has it's ups and downs you should go back if you fell like you have to!
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Maybe I shouldn't, but . . . -
07-10-2007, 04:06 AM
At the risk of firing up an argument again, which is not my intention, if you've 1) never been to an Asian country, 2) haven't lived there for at least 1 year, 3) don't speak the language you don't know shi*t. I've never been to Japan, but I've been living in Asia for almost 5 years, the last 2 1/2 years in Mainland China. I'm marrying my Chinese girlfriend in about a month, am studying Chinese language in a University, and already am conversant at a basic level. Honestly, I hate running into foreigners who show up in China for a while, run around travelling for a few weeks, and then proceed to tell me about China.
If you've actually spent time in an Asian country like China or Japan, you'd understand how biased some people's opinions are of that country. Relying on second hand information to form your opinions of a country is foolish. Here's a concrete example: Most foreigners in China know little about the country outside of the four walls of the bars they spend most of their time in. They also know little else about Chinese women other than the bar sluts they pick up on. So, surprise-surprise, a lot of foreigners have negative opinions of Chinese women because bar sluts tend to be women of low quality - meaning they'll string you (and 5 other men) along, lie to you and try to get you to spend as much money on them as possible. If you've never been to China, and only talked with foreign men who acted this way while in China, which most do, what would you think about Chinese women? The truth is that the kind of Chinese woman you want for a girlfriend, and possibly a wife, doesn't go to bars. More traditional Chinese women (and no that doesn't mean obedient and submissive, that's a big myth I'll address in a minute) aren't going to jump in the sack with you within the first few months of meeting you, let alone the first night or two. So, since most foreign men only want fast sex, and therefore don't have the "patience" required to build up a real relationship with a normal Chinese woman, they spend all their time with gold-diggers or whores (literally, prostitution is common place in Asia, but that's a topic for another thread). Asian gender roles are not what most Westerners think they are. If all you do is read articles in magazines, newspapers or on the interent you'll never really understand the truth about Asia, especially the way men and women relate here. Asian women in general are not the submissive, something-akin-to-a-house-pet style of baby-making/housemaids many Westerners think. Far from it. Now, having said that does sexism exist? Of course. Are there strongly misogynistic men? Of course. But here's an eye opening example of the truth about men and women's roles in relationships in China. In one of my Chinese language classes we had to read a short essay. The topic was how you can tell a Chinese man and woman's relationship by the way they pay the bill after having a meal in a restaurant. If the man quickly pulls money out of his pocket without looking at the bill and pays - they're prospective lovers. You see, he wants to impress the girl by looking like he has a lot of money and doesn't care about how much the meal costs. If he and the woman look over the bill and split it - they're friends. No "face" issues here. By the way, if you don't know what I mean by "face issues," you really don't understand Asia. Lastly, if the man gives the bill to the woman and she counts every cent and she pays the bill - they're married. It's quite common for women to handle the money in a marriage in China. Doesn't exactly fit the sterotype, does it? Another point to keep in mind is that if an Asian man and woman have a disagreement in public, around their friends, the woman might allow the husband to "win" the argument. However, that doesn't mean the issue has been settled. Once they get home the man will be in for the scolding of his life, and then the real "problem-solving" will begin. Out of consideration for her husband's "face" with his co-workers or friends, she might not push the issue publicly. That does not mean that the woman allows her husband to walk all over her. Most Asian men and women still have more traditional ideas about their gender roles. What that means it that it's a forgone conclusion in China that a woman will marry before 26, give or take a few years, the married couple will buy a house, and have a baby. The same goes for the man. Generally speaking, this is exactly how Chinese want it. Another example of traditional gender roles is how Chinese often make sweeping generalizations about what men and women want and what they should and shouldn't do. I mean the kind of sweeping generalizations we don't say in the States because it would make a lot of "liberated" American women shoot steam out of their ears. Like "all women like to shop, women aren't good at math," etc. I'm not saying I agree with all of this, but you need to get a bit deeper below the surface before you think you understand these issues. If you only heard about these more traditional aspects of the culture you could easily get the wrong idea. It's also worth mentioning that the role of women has changed a lot over the last 100 years or so in China. The horror stories about foot binding, etc., are all true, but ended a long time ago. There are still Chinese who prefer sons over daughters, and even the "One Child Policy" allows for a family who first had a daughter to try again for a boy a few years after their daughter is born. But many Westerners, including me when I first came to China, are surprised to discover that a lot of Chinese are satisfied with their "one child" being a daughter. If you ask Chinese about this, and the massive number of little Chinese girls given up for adoption, they will tell you it's mostly the country folk who still think this way. Most educated Chinese know that a daughter is just as good as a son. My fiancee's family already had two boys before trying again to have a girl because they really wanted a girl. Her father was fined a huge sum of money and was permanently demoted within his school for having a third child. Even though it's been said a million times, if you can't stretch you own conceptions and opinions about how relationships, business, paying the bills, riding the bus, etc., etc., should be done DON"T COME TO ASIA! In fact, don't leave your own country. It's true, there is a honey-moon period when people first arrive in a new country, but if you've come to work and live, it quickly ends and you're back to the daily grind with all it's disappointments and frustrations, highs and lows. The only difference is that you have a whole new set of disappointments and frustrations because you're up against a culture that does things differently, not necessarily any better mind you, and doesn't care how it is done in your country or how you think it should be done. Remember, you're a foreigner, no one has to let you in their country. And for all the griping and complaining that goes on, which I myself partake in from time to time, foreigner's lives in Asia as often times quite privileged. In short, people who frequent this forum ought to listen to those members that live in Japan, and have been living in Japan, like Jasonvbr or Nyororin. If you want accurate information about what life is like in Asia you really need to talk to people who have gotten over all the inital BS that everyone goes through as they confront Asian culture. Because truthfully, we all go through the same garbage in the beginning. The only thing that separates people is that some learn how to live with the friction that comes up from time to time. Others never adapt and go home, and some never go back home even though that's probably what's best for them (but we won't talk about those foreigners, haha). By the way, why don't people ever talk about racist foreigners living in Asia? Anyone here have a long-term Japanese girlfriend? Are you as sick as me of those bitter, foreign women with all kind of prejudiced opinions of Asian women?
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07-10-2007, 05:04 AM
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07-10-2007, 05:33 AM
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As for female gaijin, hmmm, hard to say because I don't want to generalise but sometimes I've heard some complete BS. Take for example the complaint of not being able to find clothes and shoes that fit then they'll immediately label Japanese women as anorexics. Well, a lot of guys have the exact same problems or at least I do. I buy a lot imported clothes because I can't get the jeans to fit my fat, American thighs. Then there is the complaint that Japanese girls are too girly to hang out with. To which I answer, you're right they are a lot of really girly girls out there but there are some that are really cool too. And if you haven't noticed how vain some Japanese men are, you should expect the women to be a little more feminine to, um, you get the picture I hope. What else is there, how about the ones that say Japanese girls can't dance just because they refuse to shake/rub their ass all over a bunch strangers. Then you have the fact that every gaijin male is automatically labeled as one with an Asian fetish because he looks/talks to a Japanese girl. Well, I know a lot of guys who are. You can spot them fairly easily because they are the ones constantly trying to get the girl to go home with them after the first date or first conversation and if you are a dude they always start showing you their massive Asian porn collection when you end up at their apartment and making disgusting comments about school girls. *sicko's* But there are a few who happen to be decent guys who just happen to lack the availability of gaijin women who we find attractive or interesting.
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07-10-2007, 11:21 AM
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This person's post on another forum sums it up about perfectly. Quote:
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07-10-2007, 11:34 AM
He/she uses his experience with foreigners and culture in China as an example. He/she doesnt actually tries to apply Chinese culture to Japan. So I think you should read past that for arguments sake.
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07-11-2007, 03:23 AM
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Japanese and Chinese culture are different, but about as different as French and German culture. Something to keep in mind is that Japan, as well as most countries in Asia, was heavily influenced by Chinese culture for hundreds of years. If you've lived in Asia, like China for example, and seen how incredibly different the culture is from our own (I see that you're American, so am I), then the differences between Japanese, Chinese, Korean culture seem small. They are in fact small. Even my Chinese fiancee told me how much easier it was for her to relate to my Korean and Japanese classmates, compared to the Americans or Europeans, because she could see the cultural similarities straight away.
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07-11-2007, 03:54 AM
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I'm not saying all of the female laowai in China are bitter and racist. I've met many nice foreign women in China. But honestly, I've become leery of introducing my fiancee to foreigners here in Hangzhou, the city I live in, because we've had so many negative experiences. For example, my girlfriend being completely ignored the whole time were having dinner with a group of foreigners, or being given dirty looks because some foreign woman is sick of not getting the attention she wants (because the foreign men are more interested in the Chinese girls than her). I understand having foreign friends that were you back home you'd normally have nothing to do with, but hang out with in Asia simply because you are both equally non-Japanese/Chinese. I've met some real . . . um, how to say, unique individuals under these circumstances. Something that happens here, and is the same in Japan I'm sure, is how completely normal guys turn into super-players when they arrive in China. Meaning, guys that aren't particularly good looking or have real "skills" turn into total womanizers. Am I right?
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